Richmond VA is in a state of emergency..... - Page 7 - Talk About Marriage
Politics This is the place to discuss politics

User Tag List

 506Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #91 of 360 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 09:26 PM
Member
 
AandM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Devil went down to Georgia
Posts: 749
Re: Richmond VA is in a state of emergency.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
The key to understanding Canadian politics is that politicians arenít really allowed to do anything except argue with each other.

And do photo shoots with no shirts on. We seem to like that, too.
In her day, Trudeau's (the younger) mom was hot.

Gotta like a married spouse-of-state that goes around in skirts and no underwear. Thank god for disco. And probably cocaine.


Run as you may, you can not escape the wrath of the almighty bung hole, for I am the almighty bungholio!
AandM is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 360 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 09:28 PM
Member
 
Marduk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,037
Re: Richmond VA is in a state of emergency.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by AandM View Post
In her day, Trudeau's (the younger) mom was hot.

Gotta like a married spouse-of-state that goes around in skirts and no underwear. Thank god for disco. And probably cocaine.
Ah, French Canadians. So sexy.

If you canít get laid in Montreal, you just canít get laid at all.

But then you realize that somehow they do nothing and you pay for everything.

Wait, were we talking about my dating history or Canadian politics again?
Marduk is offline  
post #93 of 360 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 09:30 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 485
Re: Richmond VA is in a state of emergency.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubix Cubed View Post
That's all I ever ask. If I didn't respect you as an intelligent person, I wouldn't engage. I generally try not to debate things I am not well versed in, for instance, Canadian politics. I know there are numerous parties and that's about it so I won't go there. The gun control debate in the US, I could damn near have a doctorate on. I have studied it far longer than a doctorate would have taken, that said I do not debate emotions, just the facts. "Big, scary gun" is not a basis for violating constitutional rights.
So whats with the pejorative statements like ""Big, scary gun' is not basis for violating constitutional rights"?

In your exhaustive studies, you haven't seen that there is persuasive arguments on both side of the gun debate?
attheend02 is online now  
 
post #94 of 360 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 09:52 PM
Member
 
Rubix Cubed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,660
Re: Richmond VA is in a state of emergency.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by attheend02 View Post
Trumpists are now the majority of the GOP. The rest of the 20-30% non Trump GOP members are scratching there heads saying .... "WTF"???.
The elected GOP are holding on to their jobs, white-knuckled, and butt-clenched, hoping they don't do anything to piss of Trump's base through the re-election period....

If Trump loses the election, you will see crazy s#$t happening in the senate.
Trump's campaign promises included "drain the swamp" and at that time it meant the WHOLE swamp not just half of it. That's why many of the R's despised him as much as the Ds, but once he got elected they had no choice but to back him or at the least not buck him. And yep he's a vengeful *****, but they all are, he is just blatant about it. I'm no fan of his personality, but I like what he is doing with the things that matter to me.




Quote:
Originally Posted by attheend02 View Post
So whats with the pejorative statements like ""Big, scary gun' is not basis for violating constitutional rights"?

In your exhaustive studies, you haven't seen that there is persuasive arguments on both side of the gun debate?
That was a reference to emotional vs. factual. "Big, scary gun" is an emotional response. I'm sorry you didn't get that. If you'd care to demonstrate some of your "exhaustive studies" I'm all ears, sarcasm and all.
No there is not a persuasive argument for gun control. It boils down to criminals don't obey laws, and you will NEVER confiscate all of the guns in the US, hence don't take a law-abiding citizen's right to protect himself from a criminal away from him, because the criminal will always have a gun illegal or not. There are already more gun laws on the books than any other single facet of law. Most are not enforced. Enforce what we have and you would solve a decent percentage of gun crime. All of this is not even touching on "Shall not be infringed". That ship has already sailed.

"But I'm trying, Ringo. I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd."

Standard evidence gathering thread
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
The 180
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Rubix Cubed; 01-20-2020 at 10:01 PM.
Rubix Cubed is offline  
post #95 of 360 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 09:53 PM
Member
 
AandM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Devil went down to Georgia
Posts: 749
Re: Richmond VA is in a state of emergency.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
Ah, French Canadians. So sexy.

If you canít get laid in Montreal, you just canít get laid at all.

But then you realize that somehow they do nothing and you pay for everything.

Wait, were we talking about my dating history or Canadian politics again?
Can't it be both?

On the other hand, <Lucky> Pierre scored with a "Lassie"-era Kim Catrall.


Run as you may, you can not escape the wrath of the almighty bung hole, for I am the almighty bungholio!
AandM is offline  
post #96 of 360 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 10:07 PM
Member
 
Rubix Cubed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,660
Re: Richmond VA is in a state of emergency.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by NextTimeAround View Post
I have not read about that. But the GOP support their candidates wherever they've decided it was strategic. What is the difference?

Bloomberg has offered to whoever wins the Dem nomination 500 paid staff members to located in battleground states. That's perfectly legal and perfectly ethical.
He also pumped 2.5 million dollars into the Va. election. Northam's win was paid for by Bloomberg via Everytown.

"But I'm trying, Ringo. I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd."

Standard evidence gathering thread
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
The 180
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Rubix Cubed is offline  
post #97 of 360 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 11:06 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 10,639
Re: Richmond VA is in a state of emergency.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
Are there people that like the Cowboys?
Less and less each day, thank God.
sokillme is offline  
post #98 of 360 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 11:10 PM
Member
 
Red Sonja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,550
Re: Richmond VA is in a state of emergency.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubix Cubed View Post
No there is not a persuasive argument for gun control. It boils down to criminals don't obey laws, and you will NEVER confiscate all of the guns in the US, hence don't take a law-abiding citizen's right to protect himself from a criminal away from him, because the criminal will always have a gun illegal or not. There are already more gun laws on the books than any other single facet of law. Most are not enforced. Enforce what we have and you would solve a decent percentage of gun crime. All of this is not even touching on "Shall not be infringed". That ship has already sailed.
I agree.

And, let's not forget the Palmer Raids, the internment of Japanese Americans and other such events where the U.S. government employed force against it's own citizens en masse.

Don't tell me such things will never happen again, governments do turn tyrannical.
Red Sonja is offline  
post #99 of 360 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 12:45 AM
Member
 
Wolfman1968's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Having beef chow mein at Lee Ho Fook's
Posts: 1,060
Re: Richmond VA is in a state of emergency.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
From my perspective the opposite has happened. The entire political scale seems to have shifted to the right.

On which basis do you think the political scale in the US has shifted to the left? And as a corollary, do you think it’s done so in both economic and social ways?

For example, I consider myself a social liberal, fiscal conservative. Meaning I favour small government, fiscal restraint, and more traditional means of fiscal policy. However, I am not fussed by non-traditional gender norms, relationship models, access to abortions, and other socially progressive ideas. So in this shift left in your view, is it fiscally, socially, or both? And why?

In the US, the political scale has most certainly shifted to the left. Both fiscally and socially.

I think there can be little credible debate that it has not shifted socially. Regardless of whether you are "not fussed" or whatever your personal opinion, that social change has occurred. Marriage between homosexual partners, which would have been unthinkable 20 years ago, is essentially legalized across the country. There is an increasing erosion of Freedom of Speech, once a sacrosanct cornerstone of our political process, by labeling unwanted speech as "hate speech" and banning it or otherwise suppressing it. Look at the intolerance by the left towards any sort of conservative speakers (disrupting lectures, riots, etc.) on campus---those actions are also seen in the general society as these students move off campus and bring their paradigm to other areas of the body politic. Look how the change social symbolism has grown--from an understandable rejection of Confederate symbols, the needle has been moved so that big companies like Nike will extirpate the Betsy Ross/Revolutionary War flag for being "racist". Most mainstream media is vehemently anti-Trump and don't even make an effort to put up a pretense of being balanced any more, and that has increasingly extended to ANY political position they disagree with. It is no longer an opposite political opinion to them, it is a MORAL CRIME. By my way of seeing, this allows them to trample the rights of those they disagree with.

On the fiscal side, there has also been a steady march to the left. Sure, Trump was able to reduce the marginal tax rate, but for society as whole whole, there is an increasing percentage of the population who are embracing socialism or socialist policies. That has shown up in repeated surveys. (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/14/fewer-than-half-of-young-americans-are-positive-about-capitalism.html) )
You might think that there is nothing wrong with being more socialist, but that's not the question being addressed. The question is "do you think the political scale is being shifted to the left" and the answer is yes, regardless of whether one thinks this is a good thing or bad thing. My own personal suspicion is that increasing fiscal inequity is contributing greatly to this movement, and that is largely driven by the severe disruption in the economy due to globalization and trade policies. (Paul Krugman, the left-wing economist and anti-Trumper wrote such an admission a couple of months ago: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...990s-economics)

I think I'll stop here, as this can easily develop into a thread of its own. But this is a long answer to your question of "whether the political scale has shifted to the left." Notice, it is NOT about a temporary shift in political power, as that is a very fickle thing. I'm talking about the political temperment of the US in both social and fiscal terms. Frankly, it is so obvious, I have to question either the knowledge of US society or the objectivity of someone who would deny it.

Last edited by Wolfman1968; 01-21-2020 at 12:50 AM.
Wolfman1968 is offline  
post #100 of 360 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 09:42 AM
Member
 
VladDracul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 3,764
Re: Richmond VA is in a state of emergency.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasorundo View Post

Clearly the constitution states that my dogs can run all over and do whatever the hell they want and no one is responsible.
Considering their love for identity politics, sure sounds like something the Dems would be in favor of on its face.


"The facts have never mattered less than they do today. We're living in a time where the truth has been so diminished in value, even those at the top of government (and the media) are quite comfortable with the truth being whatever they can convince people to believe",
Raymond Reddington.

Last edited by VladDracul; 01-21-2020 at 11:45 AM.
VladDracul is offline  
post #101 of 360 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 11:10 AM
Member
 
Marduk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,037
Re: Richmond VA is in a state of emergency.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman1968 View Post
In the US, the political scale has most certainly shifted to the left. Both fiscally and socially.

I think there can be little credible debate that it has not shifted socially. Regardless of whether you are "not fussed" or whatever your personal opinion, that social change has occurred. Marriage between homosexual partners, which would have been unthinkable 20 years ago, is essentially legalized across the country. There is an increasing erosion of Freedom of Speech, once a sacrosanct cornerstone of our political process, by labeling unwanted speech as "hate speech" and banning it or otherwise suppressing it. Look at the intolerance by the left towards any sort of conservative speakers (disrupting lectures, riots, etc.) on campus---those actions are also seen in the general society as these students move off campus and bring their paradigm to other areas of the body politic. Look how the change social symbolism has grown--from an understandable rejection of Confederate symbols, the needle has been moved so that big companies like Nike will extirpate the Betsy Ross/Revolutionary War flag for being "racist". Most mainstream media is vehemently anti-Trump and don't even make an effort to put up a pretense of being balanced any more, and that has increasingly extended to ANY political position they disagree with. It is no longer an opposite political opinion to them, it is a MORAL CRIME. By my way of seeing, this allows them to trample the rights of those they disagree with.

On the fiscal side, there has also been a steady march to the left. Sure, Trump was able to reduce the marginal tax rate, but for society as whole whole, there is an increasing percentage of the population who are embracing socialism or socialist policies. That has shown up in repeated surveys. (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/14/fewer-than-half-of-young-americans-are-positive-about-capitalism.html) )
You might think that there is nothing wrong with being more socialist, but that's not the question being addressed. The question is "do you think the political scale is being shifted to the left" and the answer is yes, regardless of whether one thinks this is a good thing or bad thing. My own personal suspicion is that increasing fiscal inequity is contributing greatly to this movement, and that is largely driven by the severe disruption in the economy due to globalization and trade policies. (Paul Krugman, the left-wing economist and anti-Trumper wrote such an admission a couple of months ago: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...990s-economics)

I think I'll stop here, as this can easily develop into a thread of its own. But this is a long answer to your question of "whether the political scale has shifted to the left." Notice, it is NOT about a temporary shift in political power, as that is a very fickle thing. I'm talking about the political temperment of the US in both social and fiscal terms. Frankly, it is so obvious, I have to question either the knowledge of US society or the objectivity of someone who would deny it.
Thanks for this full and complete answer. I certainly hadnít considered social issues like gay marriage as youíve indicated here, I was thinking more in terms of immigration, DACA, etc.

Iíve done some further reading, and much of what you say here is correct. In many ways, America (and probably the world) has culturally shifted left.

One of the things Iím still confused about however is that Trump seems to be doing things that even fairly right respected presidents like Reagan would have likely found abhorrent that seem ultra-right wing.

Is this in some sense true? Specifically regarding things like immigration, for example?
Marduk is offline  
post #102 of 360 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 11:14 AM
Member
 
Marduk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,037
Re: Richmond VA is in a state of emergency.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sonja View Post
I agree.

And, let's not forget the Palmer Raids, the internment of Japanese Americans and other such events where the U.S. government employed force against it's own citizens en masse.

Don't tell me such things will never happen again, governments do turn tyrannical.
In all seriousness, Iíve heard this kind of rationale used many times, and I just donít understand it.

If you are a functioning democracy, you shouldnít need this justification - because itís yours. If itís not, then Iím not sure how your population could or would stand up to the largest military in the world.

Iíve heard a corollary that the generals would likely back the people should some civil uprising happen, but then weíre back to not needing a weaponized population.

So I just donít understand how this is a credible rationale. This isnít an attack on you, because many people have made the argument. I simply donít understand it from a logical perspective.
Marduk is offline  
post #103 of 360 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 12:09 PM
Member
 
red oak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,523
Re: Richmond VA is in a state of emergency.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
In all seriousness, Iíve heard this kind of rationale used many times, and I just donít understand it.

If you are a functioning democracy, you shouldnít need this justification - because itís yours. If itís not, then Iím not sure how your population could or would stand up to the largest military in the world.

Iíve heard a corollary that the generals would likely back the people should some civil uprising happen, but then weíre back to not needing a weaponized population.

So I just donít understand how this is a credible rationale. This isnít an attack on you, because many people have made the argument. I simply donít understand it from a logical perspective.
Trinidad Texas 2016, the longest stand off in u s history came to an end when the case was dropped.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wid...comes-end/amp/

Under posse comitatus every able bodied man is required to respond when called to duty by the sheriff. How are they to respond and carry out those duties unless armed?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The only difference between 'propaganda' and 'education,' really, is in the point of view. The advocacy of what we believe in is education. The advocacy of what we don't believe in is propaganda.-Edward Bernays
red oak is online now  
post #104 of 360 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 12:15 PM
Member
 
Marduk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,037
Re: Richmond VA is in a state of emergency.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by red oak View Post
Trinidad Texas 2016, the longest stand off in u s history came to an end when the case was dropped.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wid...comes-end/amp/

Under posse comitatus every able bodied man is required to respond when called to duty by the sheriff. How are they to respond and carry out those duties unless armed?
I have a couple problems with using this as a logical justification.

First of all, the whole dispute itself was about carrying weapons. So it's a circular argument to justify needing to carry weapons because you're carrying weapons.

Second of all, he's essentially jailed himself here. He's encamped himself for a number of years on his own land.

Thirdly, I worry the benefit/risk equation is tipping very much in the wrong direction to support this argument. The standoff isn't worth the risk to officers to storm the land, but a drone strike similar to the one used recently in Iraq would do the job without risking anyone. These remotely operated weapons platforms are being integrated into domestic police forces, and even if they weren't, if this kind of thing became widespread, the military could use them directly.

Again, trying to be careful here and not spark a big argument; I'm honestly trying to understand here.
Marduk is offline  
post #105 of 360 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 12:31 PM
Member
 
red oak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,523
Re: Richmond VA is in a state of emergency.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
I have a couple problems with using this as a logical justification.

First of all, the whole dispute itself was about carrying weapons. So it's a circular argument to justify needing to carry weapons because you're carrying weapons.

Second of all, he's essentially jailed himself here. He's encamped himself for a number of years on his own land.

Thirdly, I worry the benefit/risk equation is tipping very much in the wrong direction to support this argument. The standoff isn't worth the risk to officers to storm the land, but a drone strike similar to the one used recently in Iraq would do the job without risking anyone. These remotely operated weapons platforms are being integrated into domestic police forces, and even if they weren't, if this kind of thing became widespread, the military could use them directly.

Again, trying to be careful here and not spark a big argument; I'm honestly trying to understand here.
Not going to get argument from me.
There more to that story we will never know. Sheriff could have ended it and why he didnít who knows.

Just an example, and yes sheriffís could now send in a drone strike.
Posse comatatus was reference to military prohibited from doing so on u s soil. Of course constitution has been shredded so many times.....


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The only difference between 'propaganda' and 'education,' really, is in the point of view. The advocacy of what we believe in is education. The advocacy of what we don't believe in is propaganda.-Edward Bernays
red oak is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome