How did you handle it? - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
Religion This is the place to discuss religion

User Tag List

 52Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #16 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 09:10 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 7,068
Re: How did you handle it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pastasauce79 View Post
I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic K-12 and Catholic college. I always had arguments with the nuns and priests. I stopped going to church as soon as I could. I was tired of the hypocrisy.

I live a very happy life without any religion. My husband grew up with no religion, he's got no clue about Jesus or the Bible and he's a wonderful human being. My kids know a little about Jesus as a general knowledge but I would never ask them to believe in him or the Bible.

My family is Catholic. My sister is a very Catholic woman and I don't see her having a better life. I do the right thing not because of religion but because it's my duty as a human being. I believe I became a better person the day I stopped believing in the Bible. That's my personal experience.
Having that relationship with a loving Father has greatly enriched my life. I hope also that it has made me a far better person.

Diana7 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 09:10 AM
Moderator
 
MattMatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: England
Posts: 27,602
Re: How did you handle it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pastasauce79 View Post
I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic K-12 and Catholic college. I always had arguments with the nuns and priests. I stopped going to church as soon as I could. I was tired of the hypocrisy.

I live a very happy life without any religion. My husband grew up with no religion, he's got no clue about Jesus or the Bible and he's a wonderful human being. My kids know a little about Jesus as a general knowledge but I would never ask them to believe in him or the Bible.

My family is Catholic. My sister is a very Catholic woman and I don't see her having a better life. I do the right thing not because of religion but because it's my duty as a human being. I believe I became a better person the day I stopped believing in the Bible. That's my personal experience.
And how are you with disobeying the Ten Commandments or the teachings of Jesus on child abuse, for example?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(Be afraid UK cheaters! CheaterVille has come to the UK!
MattMatt is online now  
post #18 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 01:51 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: California
Posts: 3,293
Re: How did you handle it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
I know a few, not many, who have felt so outraged over the scandals in the Catholic church they decided to either go to a different church or stop going at all.

Personally, I haven't been going. I tried for some time and could not find a place I felt comfortable. There are a few places I might try in the future, but for now, I'm satisfied with what I do to keep faith.

Have you changed churches or stopped going?

Did you do anything different?
Still going.

I think, from what you say, it seems like the local parish is the key thing often.
Mr The Other is offline  
 
post #19 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 05:24 PM
Member
 
pastasauce79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 99
Re: How did you handle it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattMatt View Post
And how are you with disobeying the Ten Commandments or the teachings of Jesus on child abuse, for example?
I'm going to say what my husband says: "I don't know what the ten commandments are!"
pastasauce79 is offline  
post #20 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
2ntnuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17,467
Re: How did you handle it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Married View Post
I grew up in the Catholic Church, was an alter boy, my mom worked for the local priest and also the archdiocese. I am well versed enough to know they are a bunch of hypocrites.

Edit: Just so it's clear .... I mean the church is filled with it .... specifically the Catholic Church.

Edit #2: "nuf said" is not a reference to you or your user name ....
Okay, no problem. I don't mind differing opinions. I like to see what your reasons are. The post did feel like an attack. You never know. Thanks for clarifying.

What @Diana7 posted below is what I always think when I see stuff like that. I also think of when Jesus said something like, I didn't come for the righteous, but for the lowly. Something like that, anyway. Remember, He was hanging out with all sorts of the dregs of society and the righteous from the temple were always complaining about that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
I am not sure why you or anyone else thinks that Christians should be perfect. The difference is that we acknowledge we aren't perfect and that we need Jesus.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson
"Youth is wasted on the young". - George Bernard Shaw

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2ntnuf is offline  
post #21 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
2ntnuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17,467
Re: How did you handle it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattMatt View Post
The problem is that I imagine that the reason some people join the Catholic Church is the same reason some people join the Boy Scouts. A ready supply of victims for them to abuse.
That wouldn't shock me. I always thought they knew they had an issue and believed that if they devoted their life to God, He would relieve them of their issues and heal them so they never wanted to do that again.

Whatever the case is, they don't test them very well before admitting them. That may be due to the lack of priests. I don't know.

We can speculate all we want and we won't solve anything. The fact is, they got through all of the tests and that's what needs to be reviewed and changed. Also, I bet some knew and kept their mouths shut because it's a priest and they are given too much respect. They are simply humans who make mistakes and do hideous things sometimes.

Those things all bother me. Those aren't the only things.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson
"Youth is wasted on the young". - George Bernard Shaw

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2ntnuf is offline  
post #22 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 10:08 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: California
Posts: 3,293
Re: How did you handle it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattMatt View Post
The problem is that I imagine that the reason some people join the Catholic Church is the same reason some people join the Boy Scouts. A ready supply of victims for them to abuse.
As a young man, I was approached to consider the Priesthood. They certainly did not sell it to me on the basis of child abuse. It is worth noting that my reservations initially were about my own suitability, as in I was not that faithful or holy;- that was actually seen as a bonus, they did not want the naive or those who could not relate to people doing terrible things.

The actual numbers of Priests involved in child abuse is, horrifyingly, similar to what you would expect of the male population. That is not OK, frankly it is worse. The scandal was that the first thought was for the Church and not for the victims.

I have had a huge number of Priests and the one that was, in hindsight, a bit dodgy. He clearly liked young women a bit too much and was paired with another Priest, we fear to keep an eye on him.
Mr The Other is offline  
post #23 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 10:56 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,780
Re: How did you handle it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
We can speculate all we want and we won't solve anything. The fact is, they got through all of the tests and that's what needs to be reviewed and changed. Also, I bet some knew and kept their mouths shut because it's a priest and they are given too much respect. They are simply humans who make mistakes and do hideous things sometimes.
A very important distinction is that these were priests molesting innocent children in the house of God. Why didn't God intervene? Even if the priests doing the molesting were evil, they were surrounded by enablers. When the kids told their parents, why did their parents dismiss the complains? When the church leaders found out, why did they move the bad priests to another church where they were able to molest more innocent kids. The kids were praying for the abuse to stop. The church leaders pray to God for guidance. Did God advise the church leaders to keep everything secret and move the priest to a new church where he could molest more children? If there's any place where God should know what's going on, it's in church. If there's any place where God should intervene to stop what's happening, it's when innocent Christian children are being sexually abused in church. The abuse destroyed families. Children had deep emotional problems that lead to anger, drug, and sexual issues. Some of the children committed suicide. Why did that have to happen and why didn't God do anything about it?

I can understand thinking there is something spiritual out there, but the priests molesting kids should cause a serious evaluation of whether the Christian view of that spiritual force is correct. The Catholic church has the largest amount of Christian followers and was founded by the followers of Jesus. If any church should represent God, it's the Catholic church. The fact that this level of corruption goes on the church should signify that there is something significantly inconsistent with Christianity. God is supposedly all powerful and interacts with humans all the time. People on this board say that God speaks to them and guides them. It's hard to believe that can be true when children are molested by supposed agents of God and seemingly God doesn't do anything about it.
wilson is offline  
post #24 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 11:13 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: California
Posts: 3,293
Re: How did you handle it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson View Post
A very important distinction is that these were priests molesting innocent children in the house of God. Why didn't God intervene? Even if the priests doing the molesting were evil, they were surrounded by enablers. When the kids told their parents, why did their parents dismiss the complains? When the church leaders found out, why did they move the bad priests to another church where they were able to molest more innocent kids. The kids were praying for the abuse to stop. The church leaders pray to God for guidance. Did God advise the church leaders to keep everything secret and move the priest to a new church where he could molest more children? If there's any place where God should know what's going on, it's in church. If there's any place where God should intervene to stop what's happening, it's when innocent Christian children are being sexually abused in church. The abuse destroyed families. Children had deep emotional problems that lead to anger, drug, and sexual issues. Some of the children committed suicide. Why did that have to happen and why didn't God do anything about it?

I can understand thinking there is something spiritual out there, but the priests molesting kids should cause a serious evaluation of whether the Christian view of that spiritual force is correct. The Catholic church has the largest amount of Christian followers and was founded by the followers of Jesus. If any church should represent God, it's the Catholic church. The fact that this level of corruption goes on the church should signify that there is something significantly inconsistent with Christianity. God is supposedly all powerful and interacts with humans all the time. People on this board say that God speaks to them and guides them. It's hard to believe that can be true when children are molested by supposed agents of God and seemingly God doesn't do anything about it.
Catholic theology is not that God exists within the material world and flies round with his underpants over his trousers.
Mr The Other is offline  
post #25 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 11:44 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,780
Re: How did you handle it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr The Other View Post
Catholic theology is not that God exists within the material world and flies round with his underpants over his trousers.
I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Can you expand on this? The Bible is filled with times when God directly interacted with people either by talking to them or by interacting with the physical world. People on this board say that God talks to them all the time. A basis of Catholic theology is that a relationship with God is an interactive one. With a matter that is so disgustingly horrible, so directly influences his followers, and influences how people view His church and His teachings, it seems like He should have been more involved.

wilson is offline  
post #26 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 11:44 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Midwest/Plains
Posts: 1,171
Re: How did you handle it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson View Post
A very important distinction is that these were priests molesting innocent children in the house of God. Why didn't God intervene? Even if the priests doing the molesting were evil, they were surrounded by enablers. When the kids told their parents, why did their parents dismiss the complains? When the church leaders found out, why did they move the bad priests to another church where they were able to molest more innocent kids. The kids were praying for the abuse to stop. The church leaders pray to God for guidance. Did God advise the church leaders to keep everything secret and move the priest to a new church where he could molest more children? If there's any place where God should know what's going on, it's in church. If there's any place where God should intervene to stop what's happening, it's when innocent Christian children are being sexually abused in church. The abuse destroyed families. Children had deep emotional problems that lead to anger, drug, and sexual issues. Some of the children committed suicide. Why did that have to happen and why didn't God do anything about it?

I can understand thinking there is something spiritual out there, but the priests molesting kids should cause a serious evaluation of whether the Christian view of that spiritual force is correct. The Catholic church has the largest amount of Christian followers and was founded by the followers of Jesus. If any church should represent God, it's the Catholic church. The fact that this level of corruption goes on the church should signify that there is something significantly inconsistent with Christianity. God is supposedly all powerful and interacts with humans all the time. People on this board say that God speaks to them and guides them. It's hard to believe that can be true when children are molested by supposed agents of God and seemingly God doesn't do anything about it.
Ya know, it's not going to help to try to explain God, because you don't believe and that's ok. Or if you do believe how could you think another would have the answers you also have. To the one who knows and searches for the one greater than himself. Often stumbles in his life and then remembers a time in his life when His Faith was stronger and because of his faith helped or is helping him through his personal trails. So trying to convince you or others with logic you require isn't possible. And as a Christian I don't want to try to convince you to believe. It is a failure in my part and a sin I will carry so on my day off judgement if Jesus forgives me or not with my other sins of the place where my eternal soul will be was my own doing.

Pettiness, of another is wrong and trying to put questions to one, who himself doesn't know. And the questions ask to the other only proves to the non-believers mind, that he is correct and feels justified. You know there will not be anything that he, l or anyone else can tell you to convince you otherwise. It has not happened since before or after the birth of Christ.

This is why the OP is reaching out to others of faith or or good moral beliefs. To aide him in his search. Faith didn't molest the children, but a man! And that man is not a representative of faith or the church, because other men in the church failed as well and all who knew. Justice may not be served on earth, but it will be done. Maybe you can open a thread with your questions, and get the answers you can accept. Or at the very least create a outlet to prove to oneself that you, are not alone in your beliefs.

Now enough for me to stop the threadjack.

Tilted,

If your not the object of your lovers heart, then your just an object.
If you think the grass is greener on the otherside it's not, what you see are the weeds.
Tilted 1 is offline  
post #27 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 01:34 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: California
Posts: 3,293
Re: How did you handle it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson View Post
I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Can you expand on this? The Bible is filled with times when God directly interacted with people either by talking to them or by interacting with the physical world. People on this board say that God talks to them all the time. A basis of Catholic theology is that a relationship with God is an interactive one. With a matter that is so disgustingly horrible, so directly influences his followers, and influences how people view His church and His teachings, it seems like He should have been more involved.
For most of human history, human life has been brutal and full of suffering and frequently disgustingly horrible. Yes, the Church has taught that the nature of reality is that of God and love and that reality is good.

That nature is not always evident to us and never will be without a relationship to God. We have to understand that suffering is natural (take up our cross) and seek him out and listen.

Of course, it could be argued that that is all nonsense. And, yet oddly, almost all spiritualities and faith agree that reality is good.

PS: To expand, the biblical stories with the most direct intervention are the earliest. These deal in metaphysics and also some propaganda (the Egyptian records say that the Isralites were expelled from Eygypt). The first creation story has parallels from across the ancient world and mirrors human awareness. The Adamn and Eve story does a great job of explaining human break from naivity. The Tower of Babel illustrates that we will often have so much hubris as to compare human societal morality with actually love and morality. It would make sense that these stories are the ones that show God as a figure. It is also that we see God as the fundemental if existance, the movement of grace and as being made manifest (initially as words, and as a man).

Last edited by Mr The Other; 11-01-2019 at 01:40 PM.
Mr The Other is offline  
post #28 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 01:46 PM
Member
 
Mr.Married's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Texas !!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 1,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr The Other View Post

For most of human history, human life has been brutal and full of suffering and frequently disgustingly horrible. .
And for so much of human history all that brutality and suffering was delivered by the church “ in the name of “.
Mr.Married is offline  
post #29 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 02:02 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: California
Posts: 3,293
Re: How did you handle it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Married View Post
And for so much of human history all that brutality and suffering was delivered by the church “ in the name of “.
Really? You are suggesting that until the Church, that everything was honky dory and that things would be great if it got out the way?

Most wars in the last couple of thousands years have been justified in terms of God and religion. Because, people take their own values and attachments and equate it to God. If we remove God, we are still left with human values and attachments, particularly to cultural identity.
Mr The Other is offline  
post #30 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 02:13 PM
Member
 
Mr.Married's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Texas !!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 1,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr The Other View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Married View Post
And for so much of human history all that brutality and suffering was delivered by the church “ in the name of “.
Really? You are suggesting that until the Church, that everything was honky dory and that things would be great if it got out the way?

Most wars in the last couple of thousands years have been justified in terms of God and religion. Because, people take their own values and attachments and equate it to God. If we remove God, we are still left with human values and attachments, particularly to cultural identity.
What you are left with is the accountability that one has for their own actions.
Mr.Married is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome