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post #31 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 02:30 PM
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Re: How did you handle it?

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Originally Posted by Mr.Married View Post
What you are left with is the accountability that one has for their own actions.
Oh, indeed.

I am not saying what happened was OK. It was hideous and furthermore, a deep betrayal. A sexual abuse case I know of was made far worse by the abusive attitude of the police and dismissal by friends (not one the Catholic Church was involved in). The cover up was a betrayal.

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post #32 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 03:31 PM
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Re: How did you handle it?

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...Why didn't God intervene? ...
....Did God advise the church leaders to keep everything secret and move the priest to a new church where he could molest more children? ....God is supposedly all powerful and interacts with humans all the time.....
You did ask for specific answers and I did not provide them. In my defence, I am not really qualified to speak on Catholic theology.

...Why didn't God intervene? ...
If the true nature of reality is good, then the question becomes redundent.

Did God advise the church leaders to keep everything secret and move the priest to a new church where he could molest more children?
Because they failed badly and horribly. They were in errror, they sinned, they mistook the own concerns for what was actually important.

God is supposedly all powerful and interacts with humans all the time
If God is the nature of reality, then all we have to do for his interaction is to have the humility and wisdom to see and understand. We rarely do.
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post #33 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: How did you handle it?

@wilson,
I don't have answers for you. I'm looking for my own.

Ask why Jesus didn't stop those who ran him out of town. Answer that and you will have your answers.

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post #34 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 05:21 PM
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Re: How did you handle it?

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A very important distinction is that these were priests molesting innocent children in the house of God. Why didn't God intervene? Even if the priests doing the molesting were evil, they were surrounded by enablers. When the kids told their parents, why did their parents dismiss the complains? When the church leaders found out, why did they move the bad priests to another church where they were able to molest more innocent kids. The kids were praying for the abuse to stop. The church leaders pray to God for guidance. Did God advise the church leaders to keep everything secret and move the priest to a new church where he could molest more children? If there's any place where God should know what's going on, it's in church. If there's any place where God should intervene to stop what's happening, it's when innocent Christian children are being sexually abused in church. The abuse destroyed families. Children had deep emotional problems that lead to anger, drug, and sexual issues. Some of the children committed suicide. Why did that have to happen and why didn't God do anything about it?

I can understand thinking there is something spiritual out there, but the priests molesting kids should cause a serious evaluation of whether the Christian view of that spiritual force is correct. The Catholic church has the largest amount of Christian followers and was founded by the followers of Jesus. If any church should represent God, it's the Catholic church. The fact that this level of corruption goes on the church should signify that there is something significantly inconsistent with Christianity. God is supposedly all powerful and interacts with humans all the time. People on this board say that God speaks to them and guides them. It's hard to believe that can be true when children are molested by supposed agents of God and seemingly God doesn't do anything about it.
God has given us all free will to act well or badly. He will judge those who have abused children, and I believe that those in the church who abused children will be judged especially harshly.
I know quite a few Christians who were abused as children (not by those in the RC church) and God has helped them immensely to heal and forgive and move on.He loves to do that.

I dont believe the RC church represents God at all. They have so many unbiblical beliefs and practises, even believing and practising things that are forbidden by God, such as communicating with the dead. I would never have anything to do with the RC church.
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post #35 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 06:25 PM
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Re: How did you handle it?

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God has given us all free will to act well or badly. He will judge those who have abused children, and I believe that those in the church who abused children will be judged especially harshly.
I know quite a few Christians who were abused as children (not by those in the RC church) and God has helped them immensely to heal and forgive and move on.He loves to do that.

I dont believe the RC church represents God at all. They have so many unbiblical beliefs and practises, even believing and practising things that are forbidden by God, such as communicating with the dead. I would never have anything to do with the RC church.
That is an interesting point about communicating with the dead. Are you referring to prayer on Saints?
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post #36 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 07:00 PM
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Re: How did you handle it?

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That is an interesting point about communicating with the dead. Are you referring to prayer on Saints?
Yes. Praying to, talking to or calling on Mary or the dead 'saints'. We are to pray to God through Jesus only.
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post #37 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-03-2019, 01:57 AM
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Re: How did you handle it?

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Yes. Praying to, talking to or calling on Mary or the dead 'saints'. We are to pray to God through Jesus only.
Thanks! I do not know much about this, but I remember the Gospel reference to the Saints in heaven, and I would still see praying for each other as a Chrisitian act. And, I rather like Revelation with the Saints offering our prayers to God. References to it come from Paul as well, but of course, Paul is not Jesus.

Thanks!
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post #38 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-03-2019, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
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Re: How did you handle it?

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Yes. Praying to, talking to or calling on Mary or the dead 'saints'. We are to pray to God through Jesus only.
I believe the reference was to what King Saul was up to. Dead does not mean passed on from this world, but dead in spirit. Those who did not die in Christ, but who rejected Him.

However, God knows what we are going to do before we do it. Petitioning the saints to intercede on our behalf can seem like we are conceding that we are not as holy or as worthy as they are. That would go against being forgiven completely and destined to go to heaven no matter what we do. I can see how it might be an issue to ask for intercession.

In many exorcisms, the name of Mary, Mother of God, has been used to assist in the process with results that were observed upon her various titles being mentioned. The evil one even commented to an exorcist about hating her.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...xorcisms-93682

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Last edited by 2ntnuf; 11-03-2019 at 08:50 AM.
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post #39 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-15-2019, 03:37 PM
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Re: How did you handle it?

It the case that all those who profess to be Christians will soon have no choice but to be Catholic because the churches are converging into Catholicism again. The systems are in place now for that to happen and signatures were signed in 2018.

It is difficult to leave your church after participating in it for a long time. However, I think that we need to examine the practices of our churches and base our decisions on the truth of the Bible. We also should appreciate that the churches attract people who are mentally damaged, like paedophiles, rapists, molesters, etc because believers are too trusting and this makes them an easy target for such people. Some of these are priests, elders and deacons, care takers too.

In the UK church are now subject to SAFEGUARDING COURSES for all who hold office and are in contact with children. They are also subject to Ofsted inspections. It should reduce incidences of abuse but there will always be abusers in churches, girl guides, boy scouts, boys brigades, etc.
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post #40 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-15-2019, 09:15 PM
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Re: How did you handle it?

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It the case that all those who profess to be Christians will soon have no choice but to be Catholic because the churches are converging into Catholicism again. The systems are in place now for that to happen and signatures were signed in 2018.

It is difficult to leave your church after participating in it for a long time. However, I think that we need to examine the practices of our churches and base our decisions on the truth of the Bible. We also should appreciate that the churches attract people who are mentally damaged, like paedophiles, rapists, molesters, etc because believers are too trusting and this makes them an easy target for such people. Some of these are priests, elders and deacons, care takers too.

In the UK church are now subject to SAFEGUARDING COURSES for all who hold office and are in contact with children. They are also subject to Ofsted inspections. It should reduce incidences of abuse but there will always be abusers in churches, girl guides, boy scouts, boys brigades, etc.
Which churches are converging into Catholicism again? Why would we have no choice when most of us go to churches that aren't RC?

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post #41 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-15-2019, 09:16 PM
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Re: How did you handle it?

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I believe the reference was to what King Saul was up to. Dead does not mean passed on from this world, but dead in spirit. Those who did not die in Christ, but who rejected Him.

However, God knows what we are going to do before we do it. Petitioning the saints to intercede on our behalf can seem like we are conceding that we are not as holy or as worthy as they are. That would go against being forgiven completely and destined to go to heaven no matter what we do. I can see how it might be an issue to ask for intercession.

In many exorcisms, the name of Mary, Mother of God, has been used to assist in the process with results that were observed upon her various titles being mentioned. The evil one even commented to an exorcist about hating her.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...xorcisms-93682
Its foolhardy to communicate with anyone who has died.
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post #42 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: How did you handle it?

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Its foolhardy to communicate with anyone who has died.
With the exception of Paul, John, Mathew, Mark and Luke or do you include them and the mother of Jesus in this? I get what you are saying. We don't know God's mind and they may not have gone to heaven. They might have rejected him.

However, when there is clear sign that the devil hates someone, like the Mother of God, then it's probably okay to ask her to help you to make sure God hears your pleas, right? An advocate in prayer seems like something God would be okay with, since those who advocated for the help of Jesus to cure their child was fine.

I certainly can't think of a time when I was helped through prayer. I may be forgetting something, but I've had no discernable provable miracles in my life. I would even be okay to have some influence, but what I find is what I thought was help turn into crap in the end. That isn't help, unless it is not meant for the living body, but the living soul.

If that is the case, I don't see how the effort to live more than until it is our time is worth more than simply having food and shelter. Maybe a few friends and enough money or whatever to alleviate or cure some illnesses or diseases would be alright. Everything else is simply evil.

It's not of God and not in lock step with what is important to Him. That leaves out religion, too. We would need to simple live well enough that we are following in Christ's footsteps as much as we are each able and forget about going to synagogue or church because the kind of worship He wants is what we do out of love that doesn't expect a thing in return.

Edit: Just thought of the wedding at Cana when someone asked Mary to ask her son to help them because the wine was almost gone.

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Last edited by 2ntnuf; 11-16-2019 at 08:39 PM.
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post #43 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: How did you handle it?

I thought this would fit in here. It's pretty scary for Catholics and maybe should be for Protestants, too.


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post #44 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-22-2019, 09:50 AM
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Re: How did you handle it?

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I thought this would fit in here. It's pretty scary for Catholics and maybe should be for Protestants, too.

https://youtu.be/ehpNXeCueL0
By definition, the Catholic Church has to have room for many views. The clue is in the name "Catholic", in particular the word catholic.
If they cannot cope with other views, they should defy St Paul and found a new Protestant Church.
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post #45 of 51 (permalink) Old 11-22-2019, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: How did you handle it?

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By definition, the Catholic Church has to have room for many views. The clue is in the name "Catholic", in particular the word catholic.
If they cannot cope with other views, they should defy St Paul and found a new Protestant Church.
Help me understand.

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