What does the right to free exercise of religion mean? - Talk About Marriage
Religion This is the place to discuss religion

User Tag List

 21Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-28-2019, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: .
Posts: 1,470
What does the right to free exercise of religion mean?

The Constitution promises us the right to free exercise of religion. What does that mean?

Declaring an act part of my religion doesn't get me past the law. Lots of religions say adherents should kill non-believers, but you aren't free to exercise that part of your religion(and IMO you shouldn't be).

I remember Scalia saying during one of the peyote cases that it meant the law couldn't ban something if the only reason to ban it was to prevent the exercise of religion, and gave the hypothetical example that the govt. couldn't ban genuflecting. That is fine, I don't want the govt. banning stuff just to prevent exercise of religion, but can the govt. arbitrarily ban things that aren't part of a religion? Can they ban doing pushups?

I have a lot more to say but will give someone else a turn, maybe they will say it better than I would have.

SpinyNorman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-28-2019, 10:52 PM
Member
 
red oak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,372
Re: What does the right to free exercise of religion mean?

They used to do it all the time.

That’s also why they were asking legislators of my state to allow sharia law.

They put it to a vote of the people and sharia law was banned by constitutional amendment.

They also banned polygyny, which is a practice of many religions.

So it seems to only apply to unapproved religions.

Both of the previous prevent exercise if those religious beliefs.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The only difference between 'propaganda' and 'education,' really, is in the point of view. The advocacy of what we believe in is education. The advocacy of what we don't believe in is propaganda.-Edward Bernays
red oak is online now  
post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-28-2019, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: .
Posts: 1,470
Re: What does the right to free exercise of religion mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by red oak View Post
They used to do it all the time.
I don't understand, who used to do what?
Quote:
That’s also why they were asking legislators of my state to allow sharia law.

They put it to a vote of the people and sharia law was banned by constitutional amendment.
I'm not sure what was banned. If the amendment just said sharia(traditional Islamic law) doesn't have the power of govt. law, I don't consider that infringing on religious freedom. It seems unnecessary, but oh well. OTOH if it says individuals can't elect to have an Islamic official mediate their dispute, that does sound like infringement and sounds out of line.
Quote:
They also banned polygyny, which is a practice of many religions.
There are a lot of things that are part of some religion but the govt. has some reason to prohibit. I realize people feel differently about marriage, but the govt. winds up mediating divorces and polygamy makes those more complicated. So it isn't clear to me if the motivation is to crap on unapproved religions or not.
Quote:
So it seems to only apply to unapproved religions.

Both of the previous prevent exercise if those religious beliefs.
What do you think it should mean? Should it only apply to things the govt. has no interest in?
SpinyNorman is offline  
 
post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-28-2019, 11:29 PM
Member
 
red oak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,372
Re: What does the right to free exercise of religion mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinyNorman View Post
I don't understand, who used to do what?

I'm not sure what was banned. If the amendment just said sharia(traditional Islamic law) doesn't have the power of govt. law, I don't consider that infringing on religious freedom. It seems unnecessary, but oh well. OTOH if it says individuals can't elect to have an Islamic official mediate their dispute, that does sound like infringement and sounds out of line.
There are a lot of things that are part of some religion but the govt. has some reason to prohibit. I realize people feel differently about marriage, but the govt. winds up mediating divorces and polygamy makes those more complicated. So it isn't clear to me if the motivation is to crap on unapproved religions or not.

What do you think it should mean? Should it only apply to things the govt. has no interest in?
No they banned sharia law period.
They had asked to be able to rule themselves by their own laws.


I can see this will get much deeper down the rabbit hole than I feel I have to time.
I respectfully bow out of this one.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The only difference between 'propaganda' and 'education,' really, is in the point of view. The advocacy of what we believe in is education. The advocacy of what we don't believe in is propaganda.-Edward Bernays
red oak is online now  
post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-29-2019, 01:54 AM
Administrator
 
EleGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 41,542
Re: What does the right to free exercise of religion mean?

"A ban on sharia law is legislation which prohibits the application or implementation of Islamic law (Sharia) in courts in any civil (non-religious) jurisdiction. In the United States, various states have "banned Sharia law," or passed some kind of ballot measure that "prohibits the states courts from considering foreign, international or religious law." As of 2014 these include Alabama, Arizona, Kansas, Louisiana, North Carolina, South Dakota and Tennessee.In Canada, Sharia law is explicitly banned in Quebec, upheld by a unanimous vote against it in 2005 by the National Assembly, while the province of Ontario allows family law disputes to be arbitrated only under Ontario law."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ban_on_sharia_law

Surviving An Affair -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To Create A Passionate Marriage -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
EleGirl is online now  
post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-29-2019, 02:00 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Midwest/Plains
Posts: 1,377
Re: What does the right to free exercise of religion mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinyNorman View Post
The Constitution promises us the right to free exercise of religion. What does that mean?
.
It's like this the Constitution say right to free exercise, so the government can not or is not to choose a form of religion you must abide by. So you can not be mandated what you must believe.

If your not the object of your lovers heart, then your just an object.
If you think the grass is greener on the otherside it's not, what you see are the weeds.
Tilted 1 is offline  
post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-29-2019, 02:45 AM
Member
 
Adelais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: East of Eden
Posts: 3,677
Re: What does the right to free exercise of religion mean?

Even Emporer Theodocious allowed all religions to be practiced when he made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire with the Edict of Thessalonica in 380 AD. His only condition was that any religion could practice what they wanted as long as they did not harm others.

Parts of Sharia law harms others. Honor killings, female genital mutilation, murder of infidels etc.

People have gotten so blinded with politically correctness that they have lost their common sense.
Adelais is offline  
post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-29-2019, 08:09 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: .
Posts: 1,470
Re: What does the right to free exercise of religion mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilted 1 View Post
It's like this the Constitution say right to free exercise, so the government can not or is not to choose a form of religion you must abide by. So you can not be mandated what you must believe.
The Constitution does say the govt. cannot prohibit religions or choose one for us, but neither of those say it can't prohibit the wearing of yarmulkes or fasting on Yom Kippur.
SpinyNorman is offline  
post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-29-2019, 08:16 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: .
Posts: 1,470
Re: What does the right to free exercise of religion mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelais View Post
Even Emporer Theodocious allowed all religions to be practiced when he made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire with the Edict of Thessalonica in 380 AD. His only condition was that any religion could practice what they wanted as long as they did not harm others.

Parts of Sharia law harms others. Honor killings, female genital mutilation, murder of infidels etc.

People have gotten so blinded with politically correctness that they have lost their common sense.
Who has been blinded?
SpinyNorman is offline  
post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-29-2019, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: .
Posts: 1,470
Re: What does the right to free exercise of religion mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by red oak View Post
No they banned sharia law period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
prohibits the states courts from considering foreign, international or religious law.
Those sound different.

A law stating religion X doesn't hold sway in govt. courts to me sounds like "It is illegal to murder Sally Jones". It should be, but the law is unnecessary since it's already illegal to murder anyone.

SpinyNorman is offline  
post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-29-2019, 08:46 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Midwest/Plains
Posts: 1,377
Re: What does the right to free exercise of religion mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinyNorman View Post

Declaring an act part of my religion doesn't get me past the law. Lots of religions say adherents should kill non-believers, but you aren't free to exercise that part of your religion(and IMO you shouldn't be).

I remember Scalia saying during one of the peyote cases that it meant the law couldn't ban something if the only reason to ban it was to prevent the exercise of religion, and gave the hypothetical example that the govt. couldn't ban genuflecting. That is fine, I don't want the govt. banning stuff just to prevent exercise of religion, but can the govt. arbitrarily ban things that aren't part of a religion? Can they ban doing pushups?

I have a lot more to say but will give someone else a turn, maybe they will say it better than I would have.
But the government does try to enforce morality, dealing with religion. This is a two-edged sword. It just depends if a person likes it one way but not the other, then it becomes obtrusive. The gov calls it by a different name and so they say they do it for the good of society.

If your not the object of your lovers heart, then your just an object.
If you think the grass is greener on the otherside it's not, what you see are the weeds.
Tilted 1 is offline  
post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-29-2019, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: .
Posts: 1,470
Re: What does the right to free exercise of religion mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilted 1 View Post
But the government does try to enforce morality, dealing with religion. This is a two-edged sword. It just depends if a person likes it one way but not the other, then it becomes obtrusive. The gov calls it by a different name and so they say they do it for the good of society.
What morals in particular do you feel govt. tries to enforce?
SpinyNorman is offline  
post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-29-2019, 12:04 PM
Member
 
VladDracul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 3,656
Re: What does the right to free exercise of religion mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
or passed some kind of ballot measure that "prohibits the states courts from considering foreign, international or religious law."
A simple, straightforward approach that I agree with 110%

"The facts have never mattered less than they do today. We're living in a time where the truth has been so diminished in value, even those at the top of government (and the media) are quite comfortable with the truth being whatever they can convince people to believe",
Raymond Reddington.
VladDracul is offline  
post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-29-2019, 02:34 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Midwest/Plains
Posts: 1,377
Re: What does the right to free exercise of religion mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinyNorman View Post
What morals in particular do you feel govt. tries to enforce?
Semitism and Racism and to be politically correct.

If your not the object of your lovers heart, then your just an object.
If you think the grass is greener on the otherside it's not, what you see are the weeds.
Tilted 1 is offline  
post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-29-2019, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: .
Posts: 1,470
Re: What does the right to free exercise of religion mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilted 1 View Post
Semitism and Racism and to be politically correct.
In the USA it's perfectly legal to be racist and/or anti-semitic.

Not sure which "politicially incorrect" behaviors you think are illegal.

What I was hoping this thread would produce is a discussion of is what the free exercise clause actually says, and how well the govt lives up to what it says.
SpinyNorman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome