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post #466 of 703 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 02:04 PM
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Re: The Importance of Alpha?

So what I'm gathering today is that alpha is anything or anyone who is NOT a 900lbs unemployed boring idiot who watches TV all day long.

Am I getting warmer?
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post #467 of 703 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 02:11 PM
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Re: The Importance of Alpha?

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???? I'm pretty sure I was describing what *I* (and some other women who are like me) are attracted to.

You are the one that said a beautiful cheerleader hanging off your arms trumps everything else for men.

I wonder how much Jon of Jon and Kate plus 8 rues the day when he felt that he had scored a hot Princess Di look alike cheerleader.

I wonder how much was it his decision to get fertility treatment after the first 2 kids.
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post #468 of 703 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 02:12 PM
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Re: The Importance of Alpha?

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I'm not from South Florida nor have I ever lived there. Us natives consider that Cuba.
My bad. I just thought that when you said the bolded below, you were talking about the cities in Florida regularly ranked as the best cities for good looking people by Travel and Leisure experts.
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If you think my comments are mean and judgmental then so be it. I will continue to stand by what I say. I would be interested to know where you live as the standard for attractive may be completely different than where I live. The beach communities in Florida and California as well are where many of the beautiful people are. They are going to be more attractive by most standards than people from other areas.
Just goes to prove what I mentioned earlier, our "truths" are actually individual perceptions based on our unique life experiences, our culture, and/or community. One person's standards of attractiveness is not universal.
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post #469 of 703 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 02:56 PM
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Re: The Importance of Alpha?

From what you explained: practicing to walk a certain way, focus on sports, always trying to take the lead, lucrative career, big house, fancy car and always having a pretty girl at your side, it sounded exactly like you were climbing the social ladder.

You are right about the sigma though... non-conformity is not a typical alpha trait, alphas though by definition, determine what things others attempt to conform to. Sigmas don't place any value on conformity for themselves or others.

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Lon,

I meant that I am definitely not the social ladder climber type, which is more of a Sigma trait than an Alpha one. In fact, I don't care much at all about my social standing or if I fit in all that well.

I understand that to be pure Sigma but could be wrong. My wife is also the non conformist type as well.

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post #470 of 703 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 05:16 PM
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Re: The Importance of Alpha?

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Yes, I know. I have been told such stuff all my life. If only I was more feminine and "girly", if only I would bat my eyes more, flirt more, if only I would gush more, laugh at his jokes, make him feel like a man, not so threatened. If only I was prettier, more charming and gregarious. If only my heels were higher, my hair longer.
Yes, I've been told all my life what men want "generally speaking.".

I'm quite certain that turning myself into those things is not going to make me a happier person. YMMV.

Sincerely,
Susie Cupcake
Greetings!

Well, "Susie Cupcake", if you are perfectly happy and content with your romantic life with men, then good! You don't need to change a damned thing, now do you?

However, if you are not happy and content, then you'd need to make some changes, whether you like it or not. It's just reality.

I have a friend that is a hogbeast. Dresses in frigging shorts and flip flops. Has poor hygiene, and is unshaven and short on cash. I tell him all the time--as he complains about not having a woman in his life--it's like, "dude, dress better. Hit the frigging gym! Stop being a hogbeast. Get your hygiene on track and start looking good. If you want a woman in your life, you have to get with the program. That's what women like. Stop pissing and moaning about how life is unfair, you're a special snowflake, and why can't women accept you as you are! Not gonna happen. Get it in gear, or you'll be lonely with just porn to keep you company, brother! That's just reality."
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post #471 of 703 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 11:49 PM
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Re: The Importance of Alpha?

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AA,

You bring up some good points. I don't think you have to be a great looking person to be considered Alpha. You can't be ugly, mind you, but I don't think you have to look like Hugh Jackman either.

I think being Alpha is in part a learned behavior for men. My father would be the Poster Child, if there was such a thing, for being an Alpha male.

He was a two sport star in college, president of his fraternity, married the head cheerleader, had an illustrious career with a prestigious company, then started his own business, made a ton of money and retired early at the age of 62 as a multi-millionaire.

He would have added being a professional baseball player to his resume if he hadn't thrown his arm out before he got called up to the Majors. Apparently, the common practice of 4 days rest between starts wasn't the norm for pitchers in 1960 and he pitched most every day.

Now I don't know how everyone would define Alpha but that would be it for me. Obviously, bedding a lot of women wouldn't be a criteria used in those days because that just wasn't common practice.

I also enjoyed athletic success, although not anywhere near my father's level, and played in college as well. Suffice it to say, I spent a lot of time around other Alpha males during that time as well so perhaps I could have a bit of a skewed perspective with regard to this topic.

If I backtrack a minute though, every guy that I knew, from adolescence on, would always dream of the big house, fancy car and beautiful wife at their side. When we got older and realized its importance, we would toss in a rewarding career or lucrative job as a goal to be added to the list.

Now achieving these things didn't necessarily make you an Alpha male but they were a good start. I can tell you that any and all talk on this subject always, and I mean always, involved a beautiful women at your side. It's how most guys measure one another. That's not to say that other things didn't count but if you had the most beautiful girlfriend, that pretty much trumped everything else.

Achieving that goal in whole or in part is what generates threads like this one. How does one do that exactly? It absolutely helps to be attractive and helps even more to be very attractive. One can have chiseled good looks or one can be moderately attractive, possess a magnetic personality or be supremely confident.

I believe one's attitude counts for just as much in becoming more Alpha. If one wants to be more confident, then they need to do things that build their confidence. First and foremost, they have to get in shape and stay in shape. They need to look as good and as sharp as they are capable of. Don't be afraid to try things. Put yourself out there in a leadership position or role of some kind. Go coach the community basketball team for example. These kinds of things can boost self confidence and you're doing some good in the community too. Working on yourself allows you to feel more in control and self assured and you can begin to project an air of strength and confidence.

It may sound kind of silly but I distinctly remember when I first got to high school that I spent considerable time working on my walk. I wanted to walk like a stud and project studhood (yep, I just made up a word). I looked around and saw what guy or guys I thought were cool and had their act together and then just emulated them. I didn't employ some sort of exaggerated gait because that would have just looked stupid. Rather I was subtle in what I did, you know, chest out and head up kind of thing with just a tad bit of swag to it. It didn't really matter if I believed I was in full stud mode. It just mattered that the girls did. My thoughts are that if your wife or SO things you're a stud, she's less likely to wander away.

So I do think someone can become more Alpha with some effort and attitude changes.
Greetings!

Mostly content, you mention several points in your post that I think are excellent. These points are aspects of the larger "Alpha" attributes in general, though there are subtle nuances to them that can have a huge impact on men's relationships and success in attracting women. I'll elaborate as follows:

(1): Looks--good looking, moderately good looking, etc. As you noted, it's a huge advantage for a man to be "very good looking": however, it's important to reiterate, this is a dynamic, a fluid range. A "average" man, maybe has a big nose, big ears, whatever characteristics that keep him from being at first glance, a model or such can still enjoy great confidence and social success with women by focusing on other elements--developing a strong, hard body that just makes the women blush: having the kind of toned body that inspires women so much, they gladly overlook whatever salient deficiencies he has. Secondly, as the old expression goes, "the clothes make the man". Dressing sharp, having a good haircut, smelling really good--all such details in his appearance can really add up to a lot of powerful attraction to him from women. Any man can do these things with focus, effort and motivation and benefit immensely. And for the ladies, again, it's not really about being an air brushed model with a Colgate perfect smile. Not at all.


(2): Attitude: here again, you hit on a key element that has deeper dimensions that enhance attraction from women, build confidence in the man, and payoff with greater success in every area of a man's life. Developing some social smoothness, broadening his sense of humor; developing tenacity, drive to complete goals; pursuing ambitions and cultivating success. Walking with swagger; being comfortable in diverse social settings; embracing some elements of social sophistication, from wines and cuisines, to travel, building/construction, clothes, colognes, history, and so on. A lot of elements for a man that is frustrated and struggling with women--even married men as well--that developing such knowledge and honing attitudes can generate greater success in life, and with women.
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post #472 of 703 (permalink) Old 08-16-2015, 01:59 AM
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Re: The Importance of Alpha?

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???? I'm pretty sure I was describing what *I* (and some other women who are like me) are attracted to.

You are the one that said a beautiful cheerleader hanging off your arms trumps everything else for men.
That is exactly right. I am describing what the vast majority of men find important, particularly when I was in high school and college, and perhaps much beyond that. I thought I made that point very clear in my post.
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post #473 of 703 (permalink) Old 08-16-2015, 02:02 AM
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Re: The Importance of Alpha?

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I wonder how much Jon of Jon and Kate plus 8 rues the day when he felt that he had scored a hot Princess Di look alike cheerleader.

I wonder how much was it his decision to get fertility treatment after the first 2 kids.
Are you suggesting that Jon got railroaded into having 8 children? I have no idea as I've never seen that show or have any idea what it's about.

Did having 8 children ruin her figure? Hell, one would think it would but I've never seen it.
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post #474 of 703 (permalink) Old 08-16-2015, 02:54 AM
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Re: The Importance of Alpha?

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From what you explained: practicing to walk a certain way, focus on sports, always trying to take the lead, lucrative career, big house, fancy car and always having a pretty girl at your side, it sounded exactly like you were climbing the social ladder.

You are right about the sigma though... non-conformity is not a typical alpha trait, alphas though by definition, determine what things others attempt to conform to. Sigmas don't place any value on conformity for themselves or others.
I understand what your saying, Lon, but that wasn't really my motive. I played sports because I enjoyed it and was good at them, particularly football. I wanted to play in college and was able to do that, which by the way, wasn't nearly as fun as I had imagined it would be. Did it help with the ladies? Of course it did but I would have played anyway because I had the ability to.

The fancy car and big house were just things my own father had attained and so I figured I suppose I needed to have those things as well.

I think we all can and in some cases do evolve. After two plus decades with the big, prestigious company, I decided that I wanted something else and started three very different businesses until I found the one that hit it pretty big.

The whole point of this thread and the other Alpha/Beta thread (yes, there's more than one of them), is that we are a mix of varying traits but we can also change. I agree with that. I've become much more Sigma as I've gotten older. I suppose in part because being more Alpha in my youth attained its objective and now I prefer marching to the beat of my own drum.

As it relates to this thread and becoming more Alpha or the importance of Alpha more specifically, there are tons of examples on how to do that on CWI. Becoming more aloof, independent and strong are results of doing the 180. All of it was/is designed to make your cheating spouse re-attracted to you or to up your sex rank, if you will, and save your marriage.

Those are clear instructions on how to be less Beta - weak or dependent on your spouse and become more Alpha - strong and and self sufficient.

I have always felt that staying in shape and looking good is the best way to preserve the attraction that I have in my marriage and keep the wife from desiring someone else. I believe if your spouse thinks you look really nice, they are much less likely to risk losing you by fooling around outside the marriage. Obviously, that's no guarantee for anyone who subscribes to my way of thinking but it sure does reduce the risks considerably IMO.

I always find it somewhat humorous whenever I come across people who have recently divorced or are in the throws of divorce because they almost always, to a man or woman, decide to lose weight and go back to exercising regularly. I laugh because I cannot help but think that if they did those things while they were still married that they likely wouldn't have lost their spouse to someone else and/or gotten divorced in the first place.

Obviously not every marriage dissolves because of infidelity but many of them do or their spouse just loses interest in them. It's kind of like having a strong military. If you do, most are too afraid to ever try anything against you.

Last edited by Mostlycontent; 08-16-2015 at 03:24 AM.
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post #475 of 703 (permalink) Old 08-16-2015, 03:21 AM
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Re: The Importance of Alpha?

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Yes, I know. I have been told such stuff all my life. If only I was more feminine and "girly", if only I would bat my eyes more, flirt more, if only I would gush more, laugh at his jokes, make him feel like a man, not so threatened. If only I was prettier, more charming and gregarious. If only my heels were higher, my hair longer.
Yes, I've been told all my life what men want "generally speaking.".

I'm quite certain that turning myself into those things is not going to make me a happier person. YMMV.

Sincerely,
Susie Cupcake

That's the real conundrum, isn't it? How do you change your circumstances or situation if you aren't willing to try something a little different. I'm rather fond of the saying "if nothing changes, nothing changes".

I suppose it really depends on your objective and how badly you wish to achieve it. If you want to attract a guy or perhaps a different kind of guy that normal, make some subtle changes that you feel comfortable with.

Us guys are pretty easy to work with. Always keep in mind that men have an ego so cater to that and you'll likely have some success. That doesn't mean that you have to always agree with them on bat your eyes at them but in my experience, always trying to "one up" a guy isn't going to work in your favor. What's the old saying, "win the battle but lose the war".

Since you don't want to make some of the changes that you mentioned above, try just being easy to talk to and likeable. That goes a really long way with most guys. If they enjoy your company, they'll want to be around you.
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post #476 of 703 (permalink) Old 08-16-2015, 09:48 AM
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Re: The Importance of Alpha?

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You are the one that said a beautiful cheerleader hanging off your arms trumps everything else for men.
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That is exactly right. I am describing what the vast majority of men find important, particularly when I was in high school and college, and perhaps much beyond that. I thought I made that point very clear in my post.
I'm very surprised by your response @Mostlycontent.

You mentioned raising a daughter. Did you explain to her this claim that all men want the beautiful cheerleader hanging off their arm? Did you tell her to 'sit there and look pretty' and she would attract men for a relationship? Did you tell her to focus her attention on maintaining her good looks because barring those, she would not attract her 'alpha'?

I've mentioned it before but I'll do it again. It's this type of belief that makes young men resentful and angry; and young women have confidence and body image issues. They feel helpless since they'll always be part of the 'settled for' group because they didn't win the genetic lottery. {sigh} It's all a b.s. but we still see this idea pushed over and over again.
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post #477 of 703 (permalink) Old 08-16-2015, 12:01 PM
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Re: The Importance of Alpha?

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I'm very surprised by your response @Mostlycontent.

You mentioned raising a daughter. Did you explain to her this claim that all men want the beautiful cheerleader hanging off their arm? Did you tell her to 'sit there and look pretty' and she would attract men for a relationship? Did you tell her to focus her attention on maintaining her good looks because barring those, she would not attract her 'alpha'?

I've mentioned it before but I'll do it again. It's this type of belief that makes young men resentful and angry; and young women have confidence and body image issues. They feel helpless since they'll always be part of the 'settled for' group because they didn't win the genetic lottery. {sigh} It's all a b.s. but we still see this idea pushed over and over again.
Greetings!

Lila--I think that while the stereotype of the Quarterback or the Cheerleader, as a status marker, can be exaggerated, I think that Mostlycontent is driving at is that the "process", the mindset, can be at least as important, if not more so. After all, there can only be one quarterback, and there's only a dozen cheerleaders. The positions of such, socially, physically, and mentally, provide some strong, positive benefits.

In high school, Lila, I lost the "genetic lottery". I wasn't tall enough to be the quarterback. However, I did make the team. I played as a defensive end, and linebacker. I was big, and strong, and rugged. I had a nose for the ball, and quick, short range reaction speed. I was good at making interceptions, tackling, and sacking quarterbacks and shutting down running backs. I worked out, got bigger and stronger. I developed teamwork, leadership, and discipline.

All of which benefitted me immensely socially, physically, and emotionally. Girls likewise may not all be cheerleaders, though the embracing the attributes that make a good cheerleader can similarly benefit any girl that does so, in many ways. I think that can be very positive and beneficial.
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post #478 of 703 (permalink) Old 08-16-2015, 12:19 PM
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Re: The Importance of Alpha?

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Are you suggesting that Jon got railroaded into having 8 children? I have no idea as I've never seen that show or have any idea what it's about.

Did having 8 children ruin her figure? Hell, one would think it would but I've never seen it.
1. I think having already 2 healthy chilIdren is blessing enough in life. I can't imagine that it is often the man's idea to pay for fertility treatments just to have a third child.

2. It was due to Kate's religious beliefs not to have selective abortions and she kept all six fetuses. I wonder if it had been up to Jon, what would he have preferred to do.

3. They were living off of charity before they got their own reality show.I'm sure that's a blow to any alpha man.

4. Even the few times my husband watched the show, he noticed how much Kate henpecked Jon which led the way to their divorce.

5. the children developed behavioral problems due to cameras being on them 24/7, something that the father could not control because they needed the money.

Actually, Kate thrived from becoming a celebrity. Gossip magaizines would even report when she got a new haircut, so no it wasn't her looks that caused problems in the marriage.
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post #479 of 703 (permalink) Old 08-16-2015, 01:54 PM
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Re: The Importance of Alpha?

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I'm very surprised by your response @Mostlycontent.

You mentioned raising a daughter. Did you explain to her this claim that all men want the beautiful cheerleader hanging off their arm? Did you tell her to 'sit there and look pretty' and she would attract men for a relationship? Did you tell her to focus her attention on maintaining her good looks because barring those, she would not attract her 'alpha'?

I've mentioned it before but I'll do it again. It's this type of belief that makes young men resentful and angry; and young women have confidence and body image issues. They feel helpless since they'll always be part of the 'settled for' group because they didn't win the genetic lottery. {sigh} It's all a b.s. but we still see this idea pushed over and over again.
I actually didn't have to say anything to my daughter. She was already pretty and she had her mother as her role model. Her mother, my wife, has always maintained her beauty and stayed in wonderful shape.

Unless my daughter was obtuse, she noticed that her mother was exceptionally pretty so she likely connected the dots that men like pretty women. I don't know why that's a bad thing because it's the truth.

We all know that kids watch what you do and not what you say anyway. If both her parents modeled the importance of staying fit and looking good for one another, then I'd guess that she got that message. I'm all for being the best you can be for your mate or potential mate, whatever quality or qualities that might be.

My daughter married a good man and they've been happily married now for going on 8 years. Whatever we did, it seemed to work out well. I give the majority of credit to my wife for raising such a wonderful young lady.
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post #480 of 703 (permalink) Old 08-16-2015, 01:57 PM
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Re: The Importance of Alpha?

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My opinion is that many women are married to guys who are not these things and they are just defending them. The other options are that they aren't attracted to such men, which I find hard to believe, or they aren't capable of attracting such a man.

For a guy to say that I prefer the overweight, frumpy woman to Heidi Klum, for example, is equally ridiculous.
There is a fourth option, which is that some women do not want men to learn how to attract women, because then those women might make the mistake of having sex with someone who is behaving as an alpha but is really a beta.

Thus, for these women, men are supposed to "just get it" (i.e., just be alpha), rather than learning how to act alpha, so that those women can avoid betas pretending to be alphas.

Always remember the LD motto: "Sex isn't important!!!"
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