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selfishness vs incompatibilyt

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#1 ·
Good evening
Some of the discussions of sexual problems tend to blend incompatibility and selfishness.

I think that they are quite different. It is possible for a couple to both be open to pleasing each other, but what they enjoy sexually is just very different. If one wants romance, candles and gentle lovemaking and the other wants handcuffs and rough fckng there may be very little common that they can both enjoy. This may in no way be the fault of either.

The other case is where one is just plain selfish - they don't care about their partner's wants, they only care about their own enjoyment in bed. This usually is seen in other parts of the marrige as well.

Of course (as with a couple I know), you sometimes get both.
 
#2 ·
Just my opinion, but I believe there are many more that fall into the category of incompatibility, than just selfishness.

I remember one such discussion on a different forum, about a 'sexual preference questionnaire' that couples should fill out and exchange prior to marriage.
May sound crazy, but, maybe not so crazy.
Too many find out later, that they are far apart on such matters, and when one or both are unwilling to change......it explains a lot.
 
#3 ·
The other case is where one is just plain selfish - they don't care about their partner's wants, they only care about their own enjoyment in bed. This usually is seen in other parts of the marrige as well.
As in, "I want you to want me in the specific ways that I want to be wanted" type of thing? Also known as the husband that craves nothing more than a wife that would actually beg just to give him a blow job. Then he could repeatedly say "no" just to enjoy seeing her work really hard for the opportunity.

...wait a minute I got myself all aroused, what were we discussing again?

Badsanta
 
#4 ·
I agree with you that selfishness and incompatibility are two completely separate reasons for sexual problems, and I also agree that sexual incompatibility accounts for the vast majority of 'sexless marriage' problems we read about on TAM.

I believe people are either sexually compatible or they are not, and when they are not, the only option available to them, as a couple, is coping (lowered expectations for sexual satisfaction or finding other ways to get needs met). It's a simple concept to understand but an impossible thing to force between two people.

The tougher problem to tackle is when couples start out compatible but life events cause their views to change in different directions. Couples maintaining sexual compatibility long term throughout their marriage is a much more difficult concept to understand but sometimes fixable.
 
#6 ·
Without selfishness, "incompatibility" could have no impact on a marriage. Respect, trust, compromise, service, communication, and compassion are equally important in all rooms of the home. When two people are truly committed to one another and committed to these values, everything else either falls into place or is completely irrelevant. Just because a husband and wife may find it hard to have an orgasm at the same time because of differing triggers or fetishes does not make them "incompatible" with one another, nor does it diminish the value, potential, or benefits of their marriage. If both are more worried about pleasing their spouse than about pleasing themselves, then they will naturally end up taking turns. One person gets an orgasm and the humbling reassurance that they are valued by their spouse; the other person gets the priceless joy that comes with selflessly serving their spouse and seeing their spouse happy. The next time, they trade roles and rewards. If this is not how things are working out in your marriage, then talk to your spouse about it openly and humbly or seek counseling.
I cringe when I hear the word "incompatible" used to suggest that two people should not be together simply because they are not identical in every way. Sure, some differences are more difficult to work through than others, and sometimes couples are simply not able to reconcile their differences despite a strong desire on both sides to do so. This is especially true with differences in core values, beliefs, and cultural customs. But sexual fantasies and fetishes are not what marriage is about. Take it from someone with a high sex drive and very deviant fetishes who has had sex just once in the last two years thanks to the libido-killing and personality-altering effects of my wife's medications. Even before the meds, there never was and never will be a chance of my wife embracing my fantasies and fetishes, as much as I may wish it could be so. I'm not sure there is anyone on this forum facing more differences in the bedroom than me. But I am committed to my wife 100%, and I can't think of two people more "compatible" than we are.
 
#7 ·
Agree with all this.

Important to add that selfishness can be very much in the eye of the beholder.

In a large chunk of sexually broken marriages, the writing was on the wall before the first child. Tons of posts from folks who say: Once we got married our sex life mostly died.

They proceed to tell their story - which goes something like this: several years later we had our first child. And things got even worse and then a second child after which it became sexless.

The way that looks to me is that the HD loved their partner and wasn't willing to directly address the issue prior to kids. That seems like a type of selfishness.
 
#13 ·
It seems that female sexuality is much more of a complex issue. The whole responsive desire stuff as well as more judgments thrown at them by society. Men are much simpler - touch penis and proceed to sex.

The thing that gets me is that even if it is the woman that is broken, why is she? Would she be like that with any man, or is the issue related to how she is with just her husband?
 
#22 ·
Well I disagree with the original premise that incompatibility and selfishness are different things. I think they are two sides of the same coin and the only real difference is who is doing the labeling and what their perspective is.
 
#23 ·
Compatible: capable of existing or living together in harmony.
Or simply put, having the same interests and viewpoints.

Selfish: devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.
Pretty straight forward no?

Different.

:smile2:
 
#24 ·
Sometimes when I want sex and my wife is tired, not on the mood, she will give me a standalone BJ to completion. Occasionally this will arouse her to the point where she will want PIV.

On the other hand, I would and have done standalone oral on her with no expectation of reciprocation or my having an orgasm. It creates desire and sexual tension that can be cashed in the next encounter. My only wish is that she would ask me to give her standalone oral more than the one or two times a year she asks for nowadays.

It's not a compatibility thing or selfishness on either part, it's actually more of a communication thing.
 
#25 ·
Sometimes when I want sex and my wife is tired, not on the mood, she will give me a standalone BJ to completion.
That would come under the definition, and it's an excellent definition, of her being "UNselfish".

Also, her doing that, aif she really doesn't like to, anytime, is unselfish.

Just going by the ol' Funk & Wagnell's Dictionary here......

:smile2:
 
#31 ·
Good evening
Examples maybe? Things that different people might consider selfish or incompatibilities.

A person who wants oral and who's partner is happy to do it, but doesn't want to do it in return.

A man who expects quick relief from his wife, but doesn't want to do the same for her because it takes a long time (this separate from normal mutual sex).

Someone who likes BDSM play and wants their partner to tie them up and dominate them - but the partner doesn't enjoy that sort of play.

A woman who enjoys lots of nonsexual intimacy to get in the mode, but then wants the actual sexual encounter to be over quickly.

A case where one person almost always wants sex, the other rarely - so the LD person determines when and how all of the sex occurs.

Someone who enjoys and asks for a particular sexual position that their partner doesn't like (but isn't actively painful).



I think that there are lots of cases where people may disagree on how reasonable the requests are, and how selfish the person turning them down is. I suspect (but would be interested to know) that people will tend do judge by their own relationships - those who are the HD in a HD/LD are more likely to find miscellaneous sexual requests reasonable than those who are the LDs.
 
#44 ·
Good evening
Examples maybe? Things that different people might consider selfish or incompatibilities.

A person who wants oral and who's partner is happy to do it, but doesn't want to do it in return.

A man who expects quick relief from his wife, but doesn't want to do the same for her because it takes a long time (this separate from normal mutual sex).

Someone who likes BDSM play and wants their partner to tie them up and dominate them - but the partner doesn't enjoy that sort of play.

A woman who enjoys lots of nonsexual intimacy to get in the mode, but then wants the actual sexual encounter to be over quickly.

A case where one person almost always wants sex, the other rarely - so the LD person determines when and how all of the sex occurs.

Someone who enjoys and asks for a particular sexual position that their partner doesn't like (but isn't actively painful).



I think that there are lots of cases where people may disagree on how reasonable the requests are, and how selfish the person turning them down is. I suspect (but would be interested to know) that people will tend do judge by their own relationships - those who are the HD in a HD/LD are more likely to find miscellaneous sexual requests reasonable than those who are the LDs.
I find it really difficult to imagine that you do, in fact, love your wife. You have this stream of activities, positions and configurations. That when you don't get, you are being "turned down". The only viable excuse for you is pain. Do you have any idea of what makes her feel safe and open?
 
#53 ·
I've actually learned quite a lot here. This is the first place I found out that LD/HD issues are common in marriages. First place I found that my situation was not uncommon. First place I found that there was much more gender equality in HD/LD than I had expected.

Learning doesn't mean that I agree with all of the advice form everyone since it is contradictory. I've listened to and rejected as unlikely to succeed in MY situation advice that I be more Alpha, more manly, more sexually aggressive with my wife etc. I've listened to but rejected as not informed advice that there is something I should do or stop doing in general - though I listen intently to any specific suggestions of what I should do.

Your advice tends to be that I'm not listening to anyone - but I haven't seen specifics from you. People post LOTS of things, most of it not appropriate for any specific situation. If you want me to listen to you you need to be specific, not just complain that I'm not taking advice - when I can't tell which advice you recommend.

I do come here to vent - here where it is harmless, rather than take out my frustrations by complaining to my wife, or worse complaining to friends in the real world.

In addition to venting, I post here to let other people in my situation know that it is not uncommon. Too many people in HD/LD situations are told that it is their fault - that they need to do more, that they are somehow inadequate and that otherwise their partners would be all over them. This bad advice is given to men and women, and I post against it wherever I see it.
 
#54 ·
I guess I find this sad. You want to encourage other people to likewise be ineffective (since it is not "uncommon) while pressuring your wife into uncomfortable duty sex while calling her "bad at" talking, more than once insinuating that she is selfish for not performing to your list of configurations.
 
#56 ·
Good evening
And your specific suggestion for what I should do? I honestly don't know which posts by which posters you think I should listen to. You previously mentioned 2 very prolific posters who have had all sorts of (often very reasonable) suggestions for all sorts of situations. Its not easy to go through thousands of posts to find ones that apply to my situation.
 
#55 ·
@richardsharpe,

Sorry you felt you had to explain yourself. It's really tough to be open in a forum with all kinds of guessing and personal experiences getting in the way. It's tough to get your point across and not have at least someone mistakenly think poorly of you. Don't worry about all of that. Your posts all over this site don't show you are an ogre or a pervert.

I'm going to try not to let my issues get in the way of my impressions.

Anyway, you wrote:

The problem is not that she turns things down (which is fine) but that he sort of implies that there is something wrong with me for wanting them). I have a very wide range of things that I enjoy in bed - but I have to be careful about asking. She rarely requests anything and says that I always know what she wants.
I doubt there is anything wrong with you, but maybe you two are not compatible in some ways?

You always know what she wants means she doesn't want anything from you, so what you do is fine. And, of course she O's. She is a sexual being and can feel what you do. It's like some woman who is unattractive to you giving you a bj. You close your eyes and just feel. Hypothetically, I mean, of course.

She only finds one position comfortable for PIV so that is what we do - and its not a great one for me (though I'm happy to do it because she likes it). This isn't her fault, she does often find PIV uncomfortable - but part of that is that it is quite rare. During times when it was common she found it much more comfortable.
Does she really hurt? If so, you'd think a doctor could diagnose an illness or affliction of some sort and if they can't heal her, at least let you know what is going on. Have you tried to get her to see someone and discuss it with them?

So, maybe when she was very horny, she would be fine with it?

When asked she says that she really enjoys sex, talks about it often, wears sexy lingerie every evening, and enjoys the attention she gets
Yeah she, in general, really enjoys sex, but not with you? Talks about it often and wears lingerie every evening to drive you insane or for what purpose?

She's lying. Could be you aren't giving her something she wanted or needs to feel like a sexy giving woman. I tend to see her as a person who will do for you if you do for her. A score keeper to you. She might not be a scorekeeper to someone she is highly attracted to.

Well, of course she enjoys the attention she gets. She's playing you like a fiddle.

What's keeping you in this sham of a marriage? Sounds like she knows she will be financially well off if you do divorce her and that's the leverage she has. She's happy with it too.

My opinion is, she is very abusive, mentally, emotionally and verbally. She needs help from a counselor and you need to find a way out and happiness instead of frustration and false hope. She's gaslighting the hell out of you.
 
#57 ·
Good evening
It so difficult to get a clear picture across.

We are not sexually compatible, but are in almost every other way. I mean how many women would I find who think going to the ruins of the last holdout of the Minoans is cool, or who enjoy an all day train ride in western China, or flying a small plane over the mountains, or think cuddling on the sofa while watching "how its made" is fun. We really do get along very well on everything else.

PIV is often uncomfortable for her. Its sort of strange - once we start doing sexual things she gets in a hurry and wants PIV before she is really ready and we are not very size compatible. Also it seems that if she doesn't do it frequently, it is less comfortable. I in no way insist on it - but once she is aroused she really wants it - but is sore later. Only a few positions work.

She doesn't see lingerie as driving me insane. Her view of sex is very strange - I describe it (not to her) as a "PG13 romance". She enjoys everything leading up to sex, but right when sex would start there is a scene cut.

Is she attracted to anyone else? Not that I've noticed, and I do seem like her type (as far as it exists). Of course she could hide it. (we are both highly technical and I'm not really up for a game of spy vs spy)

Is she using me? Maybe. She doesn't need me - she is independently wealthy. Still maybe she wants me because I do so much for her, and maybe for social status / friends?

Is she "naturally" selfish, only child etc. Is she so used to being selfish that she doesn't recognize it anymore? I do have a male friend who is like that and who's wife is divorcing him soon.

If I'm being used - why doesn't she use me for sex? Someone else? Possible of course, but no evidence.

So, I'm aware that I may be being used - or I may not. I'm guessing not. I enjoy my time with her, so despite sex not being great, there is not enough reason for me to leave. Unlike many, I can live with uncertainty. If I find out that she has had a many year affair, I'll laugh at my own stupidity / blindness, and just get on with life.

I think though that she is low libido, and has responsive desire, along with moderate levels of selfishness and an upbringing that sex is bad. If she doesn't feel like sex at the moment she doesn't want it and sees no reason to do it for me since sex is "bad".

Overall my life is actually very good. The sex issue is just frustrating because it seems like it shouldn't be a problem.




@richardsharpe,

Sorry you felt you had to explain yourself. It's really tough to be open in a forum with all kinds of guessing and personal experiences getting in the way. It's tough to get your point across and not have at least someone mistakenly think poorly of you. Don't worry about all of that. Your posts all over this site don't show you are an ogre or a pervert.

I'm going to try not to let my issues get in the way of my impressions.

Anyway, you wrote:



I doubt there is anything wrong with you, but maybe you two are not compatible in some ways?

You always know what she wants means she doesn't want anything from you, so what you do is fine. And, of course she O's. She is a sexual being and can feel what you do. It's like some woman who is unattractive to you giving you a bj. You close your eyes and just feel. Hypothetically, I mean, of course.



Does she really hurt? If so, you'd think a doctor could diagnose an illness or affliction of some sort and if they can't heal her, at least let you know what is going on. Have you tried to get her to see someone and discuss it with them?

So, maybe when she was very horny, she would be fine with it?



Yeah she, in general, really enjoys sex, but not with you? Talks about it often and wears lingerie every evening to drive you insane or for what purpose?

She's lying. Could be you aren't giving her something she wanted or needs to feel like a sexy giving woman. I tend to see her as a person who will do for you if you do for her. A score keeper to you. She might not be a scorekeeper to someone she is highly attracted to.

Well, of course she enjoys the attention she gets. She's playing you like a fiddle.

What's keeping you in this sham of a marriage? Sounds like she knows she will be financially well off if you do divorce her and that's the leverage she has. She's happy with it too.

My opinion is, she is very abusive, mentally, emotionally and verbally. She needs help from a counselor and you need to find a way out and happiness instead of frustration and false hope. She's gaslighting the hell out of you.
 
#58 ·
Never said or even implied she was having an affair, just that she wasn't attracted to you. She can't do anything to help her with that compatibility?

I see what you mean about being compatible in other ways. It's likely status and her being an only child that are causing some issues. It's likely she can't let you go or she would be less of a woman in the eyes of too many who mean so much to her.

I suppose it is hopeless when you live in a country where a woman's honor and respect is dependent upon whom she marries? Sad world you live in. I'm sorry for you both.

No wonder you have such a difficult time.

This seems to go back to what I implied in some ways. She would rather someone else in some sense, but is well trained to show whomever her husband is that she respects him and is happy to be with him. I think leaving her would likely kill her. So sorry for you both.
 
#59 ·
Good evening
She claims that she finds me attractive. Same as she claims that she enjoys sex..... just not now :frown2:

(I shouldn't have even mentioned the "status" issue - it was a really minor issue that on re-reading I see looks much bigger than I meant it to be) I'm in the US, and she could divorce me with no significant social problems. Its just that within our friends I'm very socially visible, she is very quiet. She is a very capable, admirable woman with a professional career - just socially pretty quiet. We've been in the same close circle of friends for decades and if we divorced she would be uncomfortable there.

I really absolutely don't want to divorce her - I really do love her and enjoy our time together and think she loves me. I guess the issue is that life is wonderful - with this one really annoying exception that seems so inexplicable.


And yes, I know that means that things won't change, so I really should just stop complaining here.
 
#60 ·
In the short time I've been around this board, my advice on the advice here, is like reading & accepting reviews on Amazon products.

Posters here don't know you, they don't know your wife. Don't know what you do, where you live....anything.
Many, after reading a brief description of the situation or two, are ready for you to run away, divorce, sue, or drag your wife by the hair into the bedroom and boink her brains out whether she likes it or not.
Really? Experts?

Just like Amazon reviews, rake all the crazies off the top, and the ones on the bottom, and take the rest with a grain of salt.
Those suggestions, which may be something you can try, without starting an all out war or something worse....maybe give them a thought or three & a try.
Those which have determined that your wife hates you, and on & on.....scratch.

Just my 2 cents.
:surprise:
 
#62 ·
@richardsharpe,

Sorry for being so blunt. I'm not trying to be facetious with that post. I really mean it. I think, when you are in a no win situation and really do have a sham marriage with love, you may want to consider that you love them so much, that hurting them with sex is not satisfying at all. It hurts you more than them. And, I'm sure it hurts her deeply...much more than just physical pain, if she loves you as much as you are trying to infer.

I think in normal marriage, it's not so tough to divorce. Yes, it's very hard, but when you find that you or she would be totally wrecked by it, and you can't find it within yourself to love her enough to take the blame, it's probably the best option left. It's very sad that I believe that. I'm going to try to think about this more.

I think I must believe you love yourself more than her, or you'd find a way to let her go while keeping her honor and place in your society. It's not really all that different from anyone else's world, in my opinion. It's just that it seems like there is much more to lose. I guess you don't want to let someone else have her, as any other man.
 
#63 ·
Your wife performing oral on you all that time and only now telling you that it's disgusting is reprehensible. Either don't do it in the first place or keep your mouth shut.

Try telling her that you've always hated doing something for her that she enjoyed.

Your wife could be:

1) Selfish and naive. She really doesn't fully understand how much this means to you because she really doesn't spend much time thinking about what's important to you.

2) Selfish, not naïve. She does understand how much this means to you and really doesn't give a sh!t. Your happiness isn't the least bit important to you. However, she finds being married to you convenient, so she does the bare minimum to keep you around.

3) She likes sex well enough, she just doesn't think about it much. It's disconcerting that she can't give some priority to something so important to your happiness.

4) She may subconsciously be sexually turned on by things that horrify her rational mind. She thinks she should be attracted to someone like you; someone who acts like you, but she isn't. She doesn't want to face the kind of man she would be attracted to. She avoids sex to avoid thinking about this.

5) She's not selfish and does care about your happiness. She's just been taught that sex is completely different than anything else and that she should never feel the need to do it unless she has spontaneous desire. That's the way it is and you're being unreasonable for not putting up with it.

All of these possibilities are disturbing.
 
#83 ·
Want to know the problem with that?

If she isn't attracted to you naturally, she is only having sex with you out of a competitive nature and not because she really does want you, too.

If that's the case, you're screwed, no matter what you do. You'll have to do it again and again and again. That's no fun and it's time to get out of the marriage. And, she isn't stupid. She'll catch on.
 
#92 ·
Vega-

I do agree this-

IMO, the main focus of marriage should be the relationship; not sex. There are just too many factors to influence the sexual aspect.

If I supposedly married my "best friend" then he should remain as my best friend whether we are having sex twice a day or twice a year.

Maybe we should stop expecting a certain amount of sex, and simply be grateful when it happens.

That is what my marriage is based on-same with many other guys that come here to complain or vent I would imagine. But then we are called certain names because we want to remain in our marriages- as we say because other than this one aspect, all is good-folks tend to not believe that is possible I guess. Sure, lack of sex is not ideal for the partner that wants it more but the marriage vows are for better or worse, richer or poorer, better or worse and I think you have to take those seriously or not get married. It is so easy to divorce these days for whatever problem you might have. That is why I am trying to stay away from this board and just view every few days because I do think sometimes it can do more harm than good-you read about couples having sex so often, women that want sex more than their husbands, you end up feeling worse because you say, WHY NOT ME. It brings out your selfish nature I think.

Back to what I said about talking sex before marriage-you are 100% correct, your drive IS going to change due to circumstances that will happen during the marriage-as you mentioned, giving birth, losing a job, losing a parent or sibling as you get older, your children leaving the nest, etc etc. There is no predictor of how these changes will impact your sex life. My thought on it is this though-if your spouse has trouble discussing sex or seems to push that subject away or off the table, I do think that is a true indicator of being potentially being low drive. If you bring up something, like oral sex they don't want to talk about it, or if you try to give oral sex and you are pushed away, that is a sign. I guess my point is, typically there are signs early on that indicate a true behavior that many times a couple in love will overlook. I think a healthy sex discussion is something a couple should talk about before marriage. Granted, with my wife-she was very aggressive early on-she suggested us spend nights together, she would just get naked and hop into bed etc, so she was showing it was important to her early on-and I was the first and only for her-and she got naked for me VERY early in the relationship. Still, when I tried to talk about sex acts, or tried to ask her to tell me what she liked as I was doing it, or tell me what she wanted, silence. She was embarrassed to tell me, she didn't want to talk but just do, she would even tell me-STOP talking (I was just trying to ask what she wanted, trying to learn her hot spots etc). Bottom line, as I look back on it, it was telling that she didn't like to communicate about sex and if I were out single again, that would one of the topics at the top of my list-to find a woman that was not ashamed or embarrassed to talk to me about sex. If you can't talk about sex with your loving partner without getting embarrassed, who can you talk with about it.
 
#97 ·
Bottom line, as I look back on it, it was telling that she didn't like to communicate about sex and if I were out single again, that would one of the topics at the top of my list-to find a woman that was not ashamed or embarrassed to talk to me about sex. If you can't talk about sex with your loving partner without getting embarrassed, who can you talk with about it.
You know, it could still be useful information. Shame and embarrassment don't need to be a permanent situation. Because she is ashamed and embarrassed does not make her somehow broken.
 
#96 ·
Reminds me of that Statefarm commercial where the dude keeps on saying "I'm never..."...getting married, having kids, moving to the burbs...and he keeps on doing it. The last one is, "I'm never letting go". Um, you lied about all those other I'd nevers, I don't believe your punk ass.
 
#103 ·
NS, never said she was broken, that was your term. BUT, now 27 plus years into our relationship, she has not changed and I feel comfortable in saying she will not. I don't see a magic pill changing that part of her-and honestly I would be shocked if she ever said a "dirty" word during sex, before of after. As in dirty word of "harder/faster" or "OH YES, OH GOD". That is dirty in her mind, heck me even saying you are so wet is given a mean look, or me saying OH YES-she frowns on that, and if I do let something go-shhhh, you might wake the kids.

Personal, congrats on your successful marriage, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
 
#106 ·
NS, never said she was broken, that was your term. BUT, now 27 plus years into our relationship, she has not changed and I feel comfortable in saying she will not.
It sounds like you think she is broken. She does not communicate the way you do. Had you known that that would have been a red flag to you. I am very comfortable saying she will not either without the helpful, guiding, loving hand that enCOURAGEs the change.

Let's say I have a kid who is ashamed of his batting. Instead of care, I badger him for more and more batting. As his parent, I have the right to insist he bats more. He gets upset, and for a time, tries to please me with more batting. I have not enCOURAGEd him to change his view of batting at all. In all likelihood, I have INCREAED his reticence.


I don't see a magic pill changing that part of her-
I am not suggesting a magic pill that will change HER. But after decades of habit, face it, even if you "got it" today, it is likely too late.
 
#108 ·
But see NS, I have encouraged her to share, encouraged her to let her walls down and not nagged her to do so-I have also accepted she is who she is-and I love her. I don't think she is broken, she is who she is. But this again turns into how I have failed. Amazing really but nothing I wouldn't expect from you!! :) Thanks as always for your posts to me.
 
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