Is Sex The "Bottom Line"? - Page 51 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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post #751 of 1358 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 09:45 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

A lot of things can be mitigated, pretty well I might say. @UMP comes to mind. I'm 56, take a couple meds (Propecia&#128514 and I'm healthy enough to cycle 35 miles or walk 10.

Human disease has a wide spectrum of symptoms and impacts, some fixable, some not. But it's the willingness to seek help that separates the "in sickness and in health" from "in sickness and filing next week".

Humans adapt. That's the other thing. And humans build up a lot of goodwill (or don't). My father in law pretty much left his wife to the elements, after decades of crazy behavior. She succumbed to heart disease much to his relief. I'm pretty sure the lesson was not lost on my wife meanwhile my mom did play Florence Nightingale to my father and vice versa, the hallmark of true love.
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post #752 of 1358 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 11:18 PM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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Originally Posted by Catherine602 View Post
I am pointing out a glaring inconsistency in the sex love message. The love stuff seems easy to turn on and off. It's on when trying to convince the wife to have sex but toggles off if there is an opportunity to get sex with random woman outside of the marriage.
Where does this come from?

What man here has said that they'd have sex with a random woman while they were married? Really. Who?

And, as those who like to go on about men and women being exactly the same note, women are just as likely to cheat as men these days.
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post #753 of 1358 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 12:01 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
We talk about sex every day. It's the END all, to BE all, for some.

And for others, they couldn't care less.

We see it in magazines. Online articles. Scholarly essays and news reports. Women's orgasms aren't "necessary" for procreation. Men's orgasm's aren't "necessary" OUTSIDE of procreation.

We hunt it down. We seek it. And if we don't get it (from someone else), we're "grumpy" and/or "irritable".

We marry because we have this belief that we'll have wedded conjugal bliss (on OUR terms, of course) well into our 90's. And if we don't "get it" 4-6 times a week, or 3 times a day, we'll become "unhappy", especially with our "selfish" partner.

We marry to get it. We divorce because of the lack or TOO MUCH of it. We even DEMAND it, because we EXPECT it. We're entitled to it because of it's "biological" nature or simply because of our gender.

Some of us want it because we believe that it's the ULTIMATE expression of our "love" for our partner. Yet, that same person may have NO PROBLEM having sex with people BEFORE his/her partner with NO "feelings" attached.

Some of us see it as "bonding". You know...becoming "one" and all that...Others will see it as merely a physical way of 'releasing' built up sexual tension.

It's the "E-ticket" ride in an amusement park. A 'ride' that we want to jump on over and over again. Or, it's the 'hell' that some people feel. And from the ultra-feminist point of view, it's a symbol of man's domination over women.

Regardless of our attitudes toward it, it seems to be that sex is "It". Forget about the rest of the "relationship." Forget about "until death do us part"...forget about "love", too!

The reason why I'm saying all of this, is because I've been sex-less for the past 8 months or so. And, I'm HAPPY! I don't "need" sex in order to be HAPPY. Yet, it seems that so many others put so much weight on sex for their happiness.

Now, don't get me wrong. I've been VERY HD in some of my relationships. But the point is, that I'm not UN happy if I'm not in a relationship getting laid however many times a day. I've also been in relationship where the frequency of sex was very low...

But...

...that didn't make me UN happy!

So tell me...is it REALLY the end all to BE all? And if so,

WHY??????


'
I've been sexless for a long while now, and being so certainly hasn't been an end all of anything else for me..

I do think about the void of sex in my life, don't get me wrong, but never to the point of becoming unhappy about it. There are ways to find personal relief if need be, but on the other hand- I am extremely capable of being super happy about a whole lot of other joys in life!
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post #754 of 1358 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 12:39 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

@Buddy400. Why do you need to personalize everything and why get defensive? What does that do for you? I am telling what I see and how it may be interpreted. Yu can jump all over the place to get me to stop saying what I see but it won't work.

I have as much right express my self as anyone. I'm trying to tell something. What you say and do in and out of committed relationships has an impact on your SO. Identify some inconsistencies, if they exist and talk with your wife about them as frequently as you talk about sex.

I am not questioning a man's need for intimacy to fulfill an emotional need and indeed to feel his successful as a man.

I know that the language of love is different for men and women. Sex can be a bonding experience but that is not the major theme that men as a group express.

The language men speak with respect to sex and women is often so vague and full of double meaning that an enigma decoder is needed to decipher meaning. You can skirt the issue and pretend it's not there but don't expect solutions to what seems like intractable problems.

Why not learn to speak one language that is clear and honest about sex no matter what the circumstances. Expressing contempt for women and advocating using them for sex in the present of your wife is not good. The wife should understand that her husband switches to a desire to connect emotionally when he wants sex because he says it, along with the other things.

It would be easy for women to understand that sex becomes more than pleasure seeking for a man in love if the language that men in general use is consistent and sensitive. Contempt, disrespect or references to body parts to describe women should expunged from the male lexicon. It's unnecessary, destructive and cruel.

Sex is a mans way to say "I love you". Sex is not always have an emotional component and being honest is important in maintaining the trust of women n general. Men pursue sex for pleasure only at times and at others for an emotional connection. Love includes sex but sex does not always include love.

My magic wand would remove shame from sexuality for all! Anon Pink

Last edited by Catherine602; 07-02-2016 at 01:16 AM.
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post #755 of 1358 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 12:41 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

I read a lot of things men say on this forum that does not speak to emotionally connected sex. It is often insulting, crass and misguided. There was a recent post from a man advising a man dealing with a cheating wife to "go out and get some vj" as a cure for his problems.

The fact that human beings with feelings and free will are connected to the vj did not seem to be a concern. No one said anything and I did not bother. I gave up a long time ago. My faith was restored when the OP said that he did not want to hurt anyone and he was not ready for a relationship.

Two languages were spoken in that thread, one advocating using women's body parts to assuage male pain and the other expressing a desire to connect with a whole woman when he was ready.

My magic wand would remove shame from sexuality for all! Anon Pink

Last edited by Catherine602; 07-03-2016 at 08:28 PM.
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post #756 of 1358 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 01:42 AM
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@catherine602 don't feel bad that you don't understand men. Most men don't understand women either.
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post #757 of 1358 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 03:10 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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Originally Posted by anonmd View Post
BTW, if 3-4 times per week is not tolerable as a compromise (remember the more than you want ,less than he wants) that is edging a lot closer to sex addiction rather than HD IMHO.
Sex addiction is when someone can't restrain from doing harmful things (cheating, prostitutes, etc..)

If they remain loyal to a spouse and like sex a whole lot, then they are just very high drive. I jokingly call myself and my wife insane drive.
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post #758 of 1358 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 03:12 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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Originally Posted by norajane View Post
I suspect many of the HD men who orgasm virtually every time would be a lot less interested in sex if they only had orgasms, say 50% of the time or less.
That would lead me to want sex twice as much as I have it now

When I go a few days without an orgasm, I'm on edge. If that meant I had to have sex twice to relieve it, I guess I'd be doing a whole lot of having sex twice in a row.
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post #759 of 1358 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 06:09 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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Originally Posted by Catherine602 View Post
My impression is that men are encouraged in this culture to shut down compassion and empathy for women to decrease interference with the goals of getting sex. After marriage, the emotions get switched on and spliced into sexual desires.

I am pointing out a glaring inconsistency in the sex love message. The love stuff seems easy to turn on and off. It's on when trying to convince the wife to have sex but toggles off if there is an opportunity to get sex with random woman outside of the marriage. Either way, the focus seems to be getting pleasure not love.


It might help for everyone top speak the same language when single and dating, and in love and married. The language would be familiar and easy to understand.
Part of why I am at a loss with your comments is because they seem to have come out of left field, they really have nothing to do with the post you originally responded to (@Wazza). It comes more as a rant that once again Guys are just looking to get laid, and if the wife won't give it up they will just go outside the marriage, who cares if it screws up their wife/kids.

On the bolded, once again, it just comes across as a huge generalization targeted solely at guys. Guy wants sex with his wife, he plays the love card. If she doesn't give in, he throws the card out the window, hits up the local nudey bar with a big sign that says "Guy looking for sex with random chick" Are there some guys who will cheat b/c of lack of sex in their marriage, yes. Are there some women who will cheat b/c of lack of sex in their marriage, yes. The common denominator is a variety of factors which include being selfish. The common denominator is not gender.
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post #760 of 1358 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 06:15 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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And to think I'm about to spend a large sum of money to send my daughter to medical school 😂 I should tell her to not bother as we all meet the end game.

Not everything is unfixable, Jade...
the end game is unfixable, even for medical school people.
what you spend your cash on is up to you - but be aware that most medical school graduates end up with absolutely no idea about monetary limitations/budgets.

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post #761 of 1358 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 06:57 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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What gets me is how a guy can say 100 words about how emotionally important sex is to a men in a relationship and a group of women will immediately seek out 2 or 3 words which could possibly be twisted into something negative and focus all their attention on that.

They want to believe that sex doesn't mean anything to men and that we just want to use women as "holes" so that we can "get off".

I don't understand why believing this is so important for them,
My thought on this is that it is as much a control issue as anything else. If you truly believe that men only want to get laid, well then, if you are not in the mood it is easy to just tell them to go buggar off, go buff the banana b/c in reality they only care about the O. You have complete control over the situation.

Now let's look at the other side. A guy wants sex not just to get laid. He instead wants it b/c he truly loves the person he is with, wants to please her, wants to feel his skin against hers, wants to feel that emotional bond when they are intimate together. With this, if she is not in the mood, just dismissing him and telling him to go play pocket pinball shifts the selfishness to her (knowing that sex is much deeper to him than sailing captain happy). This puts her in a position where she may have less control over the situation, and will probably need to exhibit some sort of vulnerability. Of course though, I am not advocating that every time the person wants sex they should get it

I think this is in part where @Vega is coming from. Many of our viewpoints are based on personal experiences, and based on what she has written about her relationships I can understand where she is coming from. At this point now, she is looking to take back control over sex. With this it is easier to just believe all guys are in it for one thing, the "emotional connection via sex" slogan is as real as the tooth fairy. I think she even said she doesn't feel quite ready to get back out there, so I guess still trying to process it all, and in part the basis for some of the threads she has started here. The risk would be if/when she goes back out there, meets a guy who views her as much more than a hole in the wall, and he gets scared off b/c his feelings on sex get dismissed as rubbish.

Then again, I made 3 ridiculous references to masturbating in this post, so I could very well just be full of crappola
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post #762 of 1358 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 07:04 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

If he truly wanted to please her, and she did not want sex, then pleasing her would mean not pestering her about sex.

He does not want to please her. He wants to please *himself.*

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #763 of 1358 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 07:19 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

Something occurred to me about frequency in my own life. When I was married to my first wife, I knew very little about technique. I was in my early twenties. She was a few years younger.

I found that I had a tough time with initiating an orgasm in her. Yes, I had one every time, if I remember correctly. This was thirty years ago, after all. I wanted, desperately to be the initiator of her orgasms. I wanted her to find deep satisfying pleasure with me. At the same time, I really enjoyed having sex with her. I was the HD in that marriage.

A lack of perceivable orgasms in her only caused me with my HD and longing to be the initiator of them in her seemed to cause me to be even higher drive. It almost became an obsession for me to give her an orgasm.

What I am wondering due to all of that is this. Did my drive go up because I wasn't getting the full amount of chemical satisfaction from sex? Yes, I got some comfort from my own release, but I know, when she got her's, and, I got mine, it was so much more satisfying. I wonder if that wasn't the drive behind @Vega's ex? Maybe he was HD to start with, because she was so attractive to him on a physical and chemical level, plus he subconsciously wanted her to get her's, so to speak? If she was getting her's, wouldn't that drive his need even higher?

I mean, it feels so good when both are satisfied and participating, chemically and physically, maybe those were the driving factors and not all of this men are pigs stuff? We are, or can be. It's that darn testosterone. I've tried to shut it down, but it isn't easy. I know it's also in women to varying degrees and those with higher test and lower naturally occurring female hormones, as in peri-menopause, many women will find their desire off the charts.

Just some thoughts. The easy answer is men are pigs.
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post #764 of 1358 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 07:45 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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the end game is unfixable, even for medical school people.
what you spend your cash on is up to you - but be aware that most medical school graduates end up with absolutely no idea about monetary limitations/budgets.
You're right. Maybe.....

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post #765 of 1358 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 07:46 AM
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Re: Is Sex The "Bottom Line"?

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If he truly wanted to please her, and she did not want sex, then pleasing her would mean not pestering her about sex.

He does not want to please her. He wants to please *himself.*
Because this approach works so much better
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