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post #31 of 57 (permalink) Old 09-01-2016, 06:00 PM
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Re: Wife bi-curious?

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Originally Posted by Palodyne View Post
Your wife is asking permission to cheat, and you are knuckling under to it. It doesn't matter if her partner is a man or a lesbian, it is still cheating. You need to man up and tell her that you will not abide an affair, male or female.

If she is a lesbian, then she needs to grant you a no fault divorce and move on. Otherwise, you demand fidelity. Don't allow her to waffle on the subject. You deserve better than that. Don't let her use you.

Man up, and file for divorce. Leave her to her lesbian tendencies and find a woman that wants a man. Good fortune to you.
If it's permission, then it's not cheating. Cheating is when you do it without consent. Yes it's still an affair but that's a whole different animal and can work if she's open about it.

And I'm in total disagreement on this. Having an affair with a woman as long as it was with my consent and in full transparency would be fine with me (but not another man.) I'm not saying it would be without potential problems but I could make it work. Maybe it's because I married a bi-curious woman and she was open with that from the day I met her. I loved that she shared this with me. She never did pursue it but came close and I would have been just fine if she did.

Maybe that's just me.
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post #32 of 57 (permalink) Old 09-01-2016, 11:09 PM
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Re: Wife bi-curious?

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Originally Posted by JamesTKirk View Post
If it's permission, then it's not cheating. Cheating is when you do it without consent. Yes it's still an affair but that's a whole different animal and can work if she's open about it.

And I'm in total disagreement on this. Having an affair with a woman as long as it was with my consent and in full transparency would be fine with me (but not another man.) I'm not saying it would be without potential problems but I could make it work. Maybe it's because I married a bi-curious woman and she was open with that from the day I met her. I loved that she shared this with me. She never did pursue it but came close and I would have been just fine if she did.

Maybe that's just me.
Hey, James T Kirk, thanks for saving the universe and humanity. You were a great Captain.

Ok, that aside. Cheating is cheating. Period. I never said he gave consent, I said he was knuckling under to it. Once the vows are taken and sworn to, there is no wiggle room. It doesn't matter if it is a woman or another man, it is unacceptable, and it is infidelity.

If you want to screw other people, great, the answer is simple. DON'T take vows of fidelity to one partner. If she wants to test out her bisexuality, she needs to divorce and go for it. But as is, if she does this, she is a cheater! Plain and simple.

If she feels this is her destiny, her husband should divorce her, wish her luck, and find a woman worthy of his time and effort.
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post #33 of 57 (permalink) Old 09-02-2016, 12:06 AM
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Re: Wife bi-curious?

OP,

Here is where you are letting a genie out of the bottle that you may be sorry about. Non monogamous marriages are plagued with the same problems as monogamous ones, namely breaking of boundaries and the initiating partner not keeping the agreements that are made.

Now, aside from the dangers of meeting someone on Craig's List without you there, what is your plan if she tells you
(1) we did more than "fondle" (You really think that whoever she meets only wants to fondle?)
(2) she likes it so much that she wants to continue.

If either of those occur, what is your plan???

Next, what is your plan if she meets more women and then one day meets a woman she is totally into that has a hunky boyfriend??

You better be real careful here.

And lastly, your therapist should be disbarred and thrown out of the profession. You keep taking advice from this idiot and you will screw your life up big time
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post #34 of 57 (permalink) Old 09-02-2016, 07:20 AM
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Re: Wife bi-curious?

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Originally Posted by Quality View Post
Not only is a 40 year old dating and then marrying a 20 year old pretty gross. It's an indicator of all sorts of huge issues in both parties that usually results in disastrous relationships..
Quoted for truth.

That's what happens when you're 40 and you marry a girl barely out of her teens who has ZERO life experience and has NO CLUE what she wants in life.
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post #35 of 57 (permalink) Old 09-02-2016, 09:07 AM
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This is starting to be much more prevalent, now. Women who have id'd as straight, gotten married, had kids, and are befuddled when they feel like they are missing something.

Not sure how bad your wife has it when it comes to her curiosity, but this can sometime turn into a severe ache. From personal experience, it is NOT just being horny and it is not the same feeling of wanting to just screw a guy. Unless you have felt that, you really just don't know how deep and far it goes.

Now...she's been pretty honest with you. Last week, I was perusing the W4W section and I caught my husband's cousin on there. She made it obvious that it was her, although it wasn't the intention. I made the decision to reach out to her and warn her and made my husband aware of it. The hubby was pissed because I could potentially out myself by discussing this with her, but I knew that she wouldn't say anything because outing me would out her. She's married, too. Basically she told me, "I love my husband and I'm all about my family, but there is just something missing inside of me..."

And I understood.

And that is the alternative. I've been up front with my husband. He's been back and forth, although I did have his permission to go on my first same-sex date, but it's like walking on a shifting floor, you never know what he's going to agree to and then change his mind about.

We went to a sex therapist, too. She told him the same as yours. Why do they say this? Because asking her to not explore her curious miry will only create resentment and have her hate you. Or begin to strongly dislike you. Having been on this end of it, it's not just about screwing around. It's not like when you'd cheat with a guy. You identify with your sexuality. You make it part of who you are. Then, there's the very strong desire to have that feeling of both a physical and emotional connection. It is VERY strong.

Many people want to tell you what to do. They want to jump on your wife and how she's cheating. They want to jump on you and tell you to be the man. It's all a point of view. While you have those opinions from these kind of folks, when you "delve" into that world, you'd find that many others are actually okay with it. So, it works both ways. No one is actually "right."

Please consider the fact that most women don't consider same-sex sex as cheating. They hide it from their husbands or boyfriends on this caveat. She's being open and honest with you. Cheaters normally don't do this.

My suggestion would be to sit down and talk with her. Appreciate that she is open and honest with you. Understand that this is happening much more in this day and age and many men don't even know about it.

The first thing is to have that conversation. Have her open up to you, but do not judge or reprimand her. She may just want to incorporate this into her fantasies or sex life with you. Maybe she just needs to go to a strip club. Maybe she needs more. You'll never know if you're too afraid and trying to control the future. While it isn't your fault that she's barely just figuring out her sexuality and our society is barely begging to accept this in women, you dont have much control here.
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post #36 of 57 (permalink) Old 09-02-2016, 09:09 AM
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Having been to two therapists and one sex therapist myself, they all say this.

It may not be the popular answer, but I've found that they want the person to explore their sexuality even while married. Suppressing it, is harmful and can have disastrous results that far exceed a divorce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by straightshooter View Post
OP,

Here is where you are letting a genie out of the bottle that you may be sorry about. Non monogamous marriages are plagued with the same problems as monogamous ones, namely breaking of boundaries and the initiating partner not keeping the agreements that are made.

Now, aside from the dangers of meeting someone on Craig's List without you there, what is your plan if she tells you
(1) we did more than "fondle" (You really think that whoever she meets only wants to fondle?)
(2) she likes it so much that she wants to continue.

If either of those occur, what is your plan???

Next, what is your plan if she meets more women and then one day meets a woman she is totally into that has a hunky boyfriend??

You better be real careful here.

And lastly, your therapist should be disbarred and thrown out of the profession. You keep taking advice from this idiot and you will screw your life up big time
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post #37 of 57 (permalink) Old 09-02-2016, 09:14 AM
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My entire message didn't go through.

You have two options here and that's it:

1. You can go along for this ride and see where it takes you.
2. You can ask go get off early.

You can't convince her not to do something. You can't make her put this away. She can't make you go along with. She can't make you like it.

An honest conversation is needed. One that is brutally honest and all cards are laid upon the table.

Have her join shybi. I've found it tremendously helpful.
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post #38 of 57 (permalink) Old 09-02-2016, 01:16 PM
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Re: Wife bi-curious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cali_chick View Post
This is starting to be much more prevalent, now. Women who have id'd as straight, gotten married, had kids, and are befuddled when they feel like they are missing something.

Not sure how bad your wife has it when it comes to her curiosity, but this can sometime turn into a severe ache. From personal experience, it is NOT just being horny and it is not the same feeling of wanting to just screw a guy. Unless you have felt that, you really just don't know how deep and far it goes.

Now...she's been pretty honest with you. Last week, I was perusing the W4W section and I caught my husband's cousin on there. She made it obvious that it was her, although it wasn't the intention. I made the decision to reach out to her and warn her and made my husband aware of it. The hubby was pissed because I could potentially out myself by discussing this with her, but I knew that she wouldn't say anything because outing me would out her. She's married, too. Basically she told me, "I love my husband and I'm all about my family, but there is just something missing inside of me..."

And I understood.

And that is the alternative. I've been up front with my husband. He's been back and forth, although I did have his permission to go on my first same-sex date, but it's like walking on a shifting floor, you never know what he's going to agree to and then change his mind about.

We went to a sex therapist, too. She told him the same as yours. Why do they say this? Because asking her to not explore her curious miry will only create resentment and have her hate you. Or begin to strongly dislike you. Having been on this end of it, it's not just about screwing around. It's not like when you'd cheat with a guy. You identify with your sexuality. You make it part of who you are. Then, there's the very strong desire to have that feeling of both a physical and emotional connection. It is VERY strong.

Many people want to tell you what to do. They want to jump on your wife and how she's cheating. They want to jump on you and tell you to be the man. It's all a point of view. While you have those opinions from these kind of folks, when you "delve" into that world, you'd find that many others are actually okay with it. So, it works both ways. No one is actually "right."

Please consider the fact that most women don't consider same-sex sex as cheating. They hide it from their husbands or boyfriends on this caveat. She's being open and honest with you. Cheaters normally don't do this.

My suggestion would be to sit down and talk with her. Appreciate that she is open and honest with you. Understand that this is happening much more in this day and age and many men don't even know about it.

The first thing is to have that conversation. Have her open up to you, but do not judge or reprimand her. She may just want to incorporate this into her fantasies or sex life with you. Maybe she just needs to go to a strip club. Maybe she needs more. You'll never know if you're too afraid and trying to control the future. While it isn't your fault that she's barely just figuring out her sexuality and our society is barely begging to accept this in women, you dont have much control here.
So, lesbian relationships and marriages are not REAL relationships because it's two women? I call BS on this. If she explores her lesbian side she may very well develop feelings for the other woman. That's reality. And, if she does, it could strain or destroy the marriage.
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post #39 of 57 (permalink) Old 09-02-2016, 04:18 PM
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Re: Wife bi-curious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cali_chick View Post

And that is the alternative. I've been up front with my husband. He's been back and forth, although I did have his permission to go on my first same-sex date, but it's like walking on a shifting floor, you never know what he's going to agree to and then change his mind about.
He's vacillating because he knows he's agreeing to you cheating and he doesn't know how to handle it

Quote:
Originally Posted by cali_chick View Post
We went to a sex therapist, too. She told him the same as yours. Why do they say this? Because asking her to not explore her curious miry will only create resentment and have her hate you. Or begin to strongly dislike you.
I'm sorry - your (and OP's) sex therapist said let you cheat or you would grow to resent your husband?



Quote:
Originally Posted by cali_chick View Post
Having been on this end of it, it's not just about screwing around. It's not like when you'd cheat with a guy. You identify with your sexuality. You make it part of who you are. Then, there's the very strong desire to have that feeling of both a physical and emotional connection. It is VERY strong.
Yeah...no. I don't care how you pretty that up, it still sounds like cheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by cali_chick View Post
Please consider the fact that most women don't consider same-sex sex as cheating. They hide it from their husbands or boyfriends on this caveat. She's being open and honest with you. Cheaters normally don't do this.
Sorry. No matter how hard you slice it, man/woman, it's someone other than your spouse and it's cheating.

This is just cheater type logic saying same-sex isn't cheating

Also, cheater do all sorts of thing normal people wouldn't do. So I wouldn't add stock in what cheater normally wouldn't do

Quote:
Originally Posted by cali_chick View Post
The first thing is to have that conversation. Have her open up to you, but do not judge or reprimand her. She may just want to incorporate this into her fantasies or sex life with you. Maybe she just needs to go to a strip club. Maybe she needs more. You'll never know if you're too afraid and trying to control the future. While it isn't your fault that she's barely just figuring out her sexuality and our society is barely begging to accept this in women, you dont have much control here.

In theory, I like the above, especially about the communication.

What she needs is to not cake eat. Sorry, using the excuse that you are curious and you want to try out other people doesn't cut it. If your need is that great to explore then divorce. That way you keep your integrity and don't become a cheater. You are then free to live a lifestyle that you now want

People just do the strangest things when they believe they're entitled.
But they do even stranger things when they just plain believe.

Last edited by snerg; 09-02-2016 at 04:35 PM.
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post #40 of 57 (permalink) Old 09-02-2016, 06:39 PM
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Re: Wife bi-curious?

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So, lesbian relationships and marriages are not REAL relationships because it's two women? I call BS on this. If she explores her lesbian side she may very well develop feelings for the other woman. That's reality. And, if she does, it could strain or destroy the marriage.
Agreed... I'm curious enough to go to a strip club to explore the fantasy with my H, but I would never act on it even though my H has often told me it would be fine as long as he could watch To be fair, I even told him he could be with another man as long as I got to watch too... that ended that discussion

I would be too worried about developing feelings for OW, or losing feelings for my H. Or him being more into OW too... in our case I worry about it leading to a 3-way, and I don't like to share
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post #41 of 57 (permalink) Old 09-04-2016, 06:39 PM
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Re: Wife bi-curious?

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Originally Posted by JamesTKirk View Post
If it's permission, then it's not cheating. Cheating is when you do it without consent. Yes it's still an affair but that's a whole different animal and can work if she's open about it.

And I'm in total disagreement on this. Having an affair with a woman as long as it was with my consent and in full transparency would be fine with me (but not another man.) I'm not saying it would be without potential problems but I could make it work. Maybe it's because I married a bi-curious woman and she was open with that from the day I met her. I loved that she shared this with me. She never did pursue it but came close and I would have been just fine if she did.

Maybe that's just me.
It is not just you - my wife is bi-curious as well. We have discussed it and if she wanted to do something with another woman (with or without me present) I would be fine with it, but that is just me. I can't explain why that is, it just is. If someone faults me for that, that's fine.

However, many people feel that it is cheating regardless of the sex, and regardless of whether or not they have consent from their spouse. That is a valid point of view as well, and I don't fault anyone for feeling this way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palodyne View Post
Cheating is cheating. Period. I never said he gave consent, I said he was knuckling under to it. Once the vows are taken and sworn to, there is no wiggle room. It doesn't matter if it is a woman or another man, it is unacceptable, and it is infidelity.

If you want to screw other people, great, the answer is simple. DON'T take vows of fidelity to one partner. If she wants to test out her bisexuality, she needs to divorce and go for it. But as is, if she does this, she is a cheater! Plain and simple.

If she feels this is her destiny, her husband should divorce her, wish her luck, and find a woman worthy of his time and effort.
Personally I don't think the problem is that she wants to. The problem is that he doesn't want her to, and she is pressuring him to do it anyway. Or maybe he is not voicing that concern to her, and that is a problem too.

However, I don't think it is a good idea to imprint your own values onto someone else's relationship. I don't agree with the OPs point of view, but I think it's important to acknowledge it and give advice based on his values, not mine.


To the OP - I agree with other posters here in that she doesn't seem to respect your marriage. Believe us, she is likely to go ahead and do it behind your back. By forcing yourself to give consent when you don't really want to, you're giving her an out - "But I thought you were OK with it!"

Doing something she's never done to "get it out of her system" seems like flawed logic to me. How does she know she won't like the other person more than she expects? If she then decided to leave you and take half of your assets, you can't really say anything because "you said it was OK!"
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post #42 of 57 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 12:49 PM
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Re: Wife bi-curious?

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Hey, James T Kirk, thanks for saving the universe and humanity. You were a great Captain.

Ok, that aside. Cheating is cheating. Period. I never said he gave consent, I said he was knuckling under to it. Once the vows are taken and sworn to, there is no wiggle room. It doesn't matter if it is a woman or another man, it is unacceptable, and it is infidelity.

If you want to screw other people, great, the answer is simple. DON'T take vows of fidelity to one partner. If she wants to test out her bisexuality, she needs to divorce and go for it. But as is, if she does this, she is a cheater! Plain and simple.

If she feels this is her destiny, her husband should divorce her, wish her luck, and find a woman worthy of his time and effort.
Cheating is lying, deception, and going against what you and your spouse agreed to. When it's collabortion it's not cheating. Marriage does not mean manogomy for all people.
Cheating and manogomy aren't the same thing.
I'm not saying it's a good idea. I'm just saying I don't agree an what cheating is which is going about it secretly or with desception. You can cheat without having sex with another person.
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post #43 of 57 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 01:17 PM
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Re: Wife bi-curious?

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Originally Posted by JamesTKirk View Post
Cheating is lying, deception, and going against what you and your spouse agreed to. When it's collabortion it's not cheating. Marriage does not mean manogomy for all people.
Cheating and manogomy aren't the same thing.
I'm not saying it's a good idea. I'm just saying I don't agree an what cheating is which is going about it secretly or with desception. You can cheat without having sex with another person.
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I see you attempting to wiggle out of that Kobayashi Maru.

Now to use Vulcan logic to free you from the clutches of that Orion slave girl (the green hot one that is)

Marriage does actually mean monogamy. Monogamy and exclusivity When you marry, you agree to forsake all others. So even if it's agreed to be with others, it's cheating (i.e. you are doing something that you shouldn't be doing because you agreed to forsake all others).

I was recently at a very simple and nonreligious wedding. Even in their vows read by the justice of peace, it mentions that they each agree to forsake all others

Cheating isn't just about the deception. It also encompasses the action, the stealing of emotions, the mental (and sometimes physical) damage, as well as the consequences.

I will agree with you that your terms of what cheating is and my terms of cheating are probably a little different (as with others as well). I think we will devolve into the ever popular thread jack trying to determine whose term of cheating is most correct.

I do thank you for your work in personally helping to populate half the know galaxy!

People just do the strangest things when they believe they're entitled.
But they do even stranger things when they just plain believe.
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post #44 of 57 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 02:09 PM
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Re: Wife bi-curious?

Let's all agree to disagree, and go with the knowledge that the OP is not OK with this.

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post #45 of 57 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 02:11 PM
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Re: Wife bi-curious?

If he agrees to let her explore her sexuality, it's NOT cheating. However, he can say no, because when you marry you commit to one person (barring any mutual agreement to the contrary). A bisexual person can commit just as a heterosexual can. If they cannot, then they should not make the vow. If they discover later that they don't want to keep the vow, they can ask permission from their spouse and negotiate parameters, or choose to divorce instead (or if permission isn't given). That's the reasonable, respectful, and honest way to approach it, IMO.

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.
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