Sex Cycles and Arbitrary Rules - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

User Tag List

 65Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 07:29 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 37
We all know the next response from the OP, “but she’s a great wife overall and I’m not going to divorce over sex”

OP, time to eject. You made vows on your wedding day “to love and cherish”. Your wife is breaking the vows.
BigbadBootyDaddy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 09:07 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 138
Re: Sex Cycles and Arbitrary Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by In Absentia View Post
Also, behaving like a dog in heat doesn't help. You just put her off. And yes, she is doing it for you. I forced myself to be happy with sex once a month, until we were empty-nesters... that's when she turned the sex tap off... good luck! Unfortunately, I have no advice for you.

Women hate sexual panhandling.

Also based on what OP said I would guarantee she’s faking her O’s.

I will say you can’t force someone into sex or wanting to address things but guys know when they are being tolerated sexually or given duty sex. It’s obvious and actually does more harm then good. It’s a huge psychological blow to know that you’re partner (whom at one point would be devastated if you didn’t want to have sex with her) would rather be friends. This is really an “avoidance” dance... avoiding getting to a point where the guy realizes the relationship is so one-sided that he takes his marbles and goes somewhere else. It gets to a point where SHE decides its not important to have or show sexual attraction to him. As a guy, this feels like SH*T! Why? You have NO agency unless you leave or have an affair and she gets what she wants: same standard of living, no divorce stigma, someone to hang around with, someone to feed her love languages. She’s not the bad guy... you are whether you step outside the marriage or not. I get why guys leave... who wants to be financially responsible for their roommate? Nobody wants to be in situation where one person says this “us”-problem is now just a “you”-problem good luck with that.

We see it over and over again her on TAM:

1) He complains about drop in sex frequency. She doesn’t want to fight about it so she allows it once a *insert time interval here* which counters the frequency argument and says at at least they’re having sex.

2) He then complains there’s no passion. She doesn’t want to fight so she either fakes it or accuses him of wanting “porn sex” and that she “isn’t good enough” for him.

3) He wants to do counseling. She doesn’t because there is nothing wrong with her.

4) Guy gets depressed and either leaves or loses whatever respect he had for his wife and slowly dies inside. Or guy is now enjoying life with someone else who enjoys sex like he does.

I’ve contemplated this and personally I wouldn’t divorce over it but I would find it hard to be able to live in the same house. I’d feel used if she didn’t put any effort into reestablishing the connection. Especially if it was caste in the light of her not wanting sex and it was my problem not hers. Lack of sex easily highlights how you are or are not connected elsewhere (i.e. hobbies, common interests, etc). “I don’t want to love you the way you need to be loved” is one of the most devastating thing someone can hear.

On another post in another thread awhile ago, someone posted that he and his wife we’re in MC and the counselor asked his wife point blank “so you’re willing to lose half your income, half your assets, half the time you have with your kids, pay lawyers a considerable sum of money and be alone just so you don’t have to do something you told us you like to do?”


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
aaarghdub is offline  
post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 09:12 AM
Member
 
ConanHub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Abroad. Mid to eastern U.S.
Posts: 12,384
Re: Sex Cycles and Arbitrary Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Jim59 View Post
I have been married for over 35 years. I love my wife and we have a great life together. My wife is not a very physical person. She likes her space and that's fine, I do too. But the sexual part of our relationship have been driving me nuts especial the rules.
Rules:
  • No sex except in the dark usually after 9:00 PM.
  • No sex in the morning.
  • No afternoon sex because it is too light out.
  • No sex without a hot bath first.
  • The man always instigates but the woman has the right of refusal.
  • The man may instigate by kissing, massaging, rubbing and intimately touching. The woman will show her unwillingness to respond by laying there with arms folded hoping it will all stop. It does.
  • Apparently we have sex "all the time." My wife and I have very different calendars when it comes to sex. Ten days is "all the time" but for me it seems like an eternity.

The Rules have relegated passion to such a narrow window of opportunity that I find myself frustrated, angry and at a loss. My wife feels that sex should be spontaneous (we have talked about this) but for me it is very difficult to be spontaneous within these narrow confines. She says she enjoys sex but I get the impression, if I was not there, it would be the last thing on her mind. It wasn't always like this and there are times when the sex is exceptional but it never lasts.

There is a cycle to all of this. Usually, the longer I go without the more distant and the more pissed I become. Then something snaps in her and she says to herself "Oh no! I had better do him." She slips into bed naked and I'm like "Oh COOL!" and it's wonderful. I am on cloud nine for three days and then the cycle starts all over again. I have tried to talk to her but all she hears is that I am complaining that we never do it. That's not it at all. I want some communication. I want for her to want me just every now and then. I want sex to be important and not the last item on the to-do list.

Am I the only one stuck in a sex cycle and bound by a set of arbitrary rules?
Quote:
Originally Posted by farsidejunky View Post
The only one binding you to said rules is you.

If you don't like the game, walk away from the table.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
This in a nutshell OP. You're wife is behind the wheel and she doesn't know how to drive.

What type of shape are you in? Her?

Ages?

Does she have a religious background?

You are part of the problem in that you have pretty much allowed yourself to be removed from being an equal sexual/romantic partner in this relationship.

Like Farside mentioned, she made a game with all the rules and you keep sitting down to play her game, and it is a game sir, one which neither of you can win.

Anyone can fall into the trap you two have and many can't, or won't, do what it takes to get out.

Mrs. C and I could have found ourselves in your shoes but I refused to allow us to remain in stupidville, sexually speaking, for very long.

We are into our 29th year together and we had a bad night last night with some yelling and stress. We talked later and she gave me a foot rub.

This morning she pranced around in her black set of under lace until she got a ride out of me because she just wanted me to know she loved me.

That took years of work in good faith by both of us.

There is no magic trick that will work here and your wife isn't going to start the process it will take to heal this situation.

This is going to have to be started by you and you will probably have an uphill battle to break many years worth of bad behavior from both of you and learn and establish healthy, new behavior.

It starts with taking your choice and agency back a little and focusing more on yourself and your personal betterment.

Farside has more personal experience with more ground covered than me so you can probably learn a lot from hearing his story and process.
ConanHub is online now  
post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 09:21 AM
Moderator
 
Lila's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 4,772
@Big_Jim59 I'm going to assume from your user name that you are 59 years old.

I am going to take a different approach to your issue but I would like you to answer the following questions first...

1). What would you say are the qualities that you love about your wife?

2). Outside of the sex, are there or have there been other issues in the marriage? Infidelity, extended family drama, deaths in the family, etc.

3). If you were to find yourself single tomorrow, would you consider yourself an attractive partner for dating? Physically fit, financially well off, interesting, charismatic, low emotional baggage, etc...
Lila is offline  
post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 09:28 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Southeast
Posts: 4,204
Re: Sex Cycles and Arbitrary Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Jim59 View Post
I have been married for over 35 years. I love my wife and we have a great life together. My wife is not a very physical person. She likes her space and that's fine, I do too. But the sexual part of our relationship have been driving me nuts especial the rules.
Rules:
  • No sex except in the dark usually after 9:00 PM.
  • No sex in the morning.
  • No afternoon sex because it is too light out.
  • No sex without a hot bath first.
  • The man always instigates but the woman has the right of refusal.
  • The man may instigate by kissing, massaging, rubbing and intimately touching. The woman will show her unwillingness to respond by laying there with arms folded hoping it will all stop. It does.
  • Apparently we have sex "all the time." My wife and I have very different calendars when it comes to sex. Ten days is "all the time" but for me it seems like an eternity.

The Rules have relegated passion to such a narrow window of opportunity that I find myself frustrated, angry and at a loss. My wife feels that sex should be spontaneous (we have talked about this) but for me it is very difficult to be spontaneous within these narrow confines. She says she enjoys sex but I get the impression, if I was not there, it would be the last thing on her mind. It wasn't always like this and there are times when the sex is exceptional but it never lasts.

There is a cycle to all of this. Usually, the longer I go without the more distant and the more pissed I become. Then something snaps in her and she says to herself "Oh no! I had better do him." She slips into bed naked and I'm like "Oh COOL!" and it's wonderful. I am on cloud nine for three days and then the cycle starts all over again. I have tried to talk to her but all she hears is that I am complaining that we never do it. That's not it at all. I want some communication. I want for her to want me just every now and then. I want sex to be important and not the last item on the to-do list.

Am I the only one stuck in a sex cycle and bound by a set of arbitrary rules?
You've written a common occurrence list some, or many, live with until a flash of good sense prevails and the H, best case is both spouses admit it creates a crazy train no sane man will follow unless other circumstance impact or warrant it.
Ragnar Ragnasson is online now  
post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 09:45 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Midwest/Plains
Posts: 1,741
Re: Sex Cycles and Arbitrary Rules

Jim, l am with the others just how far are you willing to take this? Because this will be the answer you seek. You are probably emptynesters, and there has been issues that both you and her have not gotten over. So if your not interested in taking this to the final end, is why she can do exactly what she wishes. And yes you don't have a damn thing to say about it.

Your stuck because your acting like a beta man, and showing some passive aggressive emotions. Look it time you raised your kids and they are grown. It's time to ante up, if you not able to no amount of MC is going to help. You are an afraid scared man, and she knows it. What you ask is not over the top. And she just makes you feel that way. Don't just go and get a hobby, make a stand and tell here this is the way it will change or else your going to leave the marriage. And you don't have to explain this to your kids because she will.

She will have the kids take her side in proving your I'll and want something more than what is normal. But it's not.

If your not the object of your lovers heart, then your just an object.
If you think the grass is greener on the otherside it's not, what you see are the weeds.
Tilted 1 is online now  
post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 09:47 AM
Member
 
Cletus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 6,260
Re: Sex Cycles and Arbitrary Rules

Sorry, man, gotta go with the majority opinion here in that -

1. That path to solving this is long, difficult, and compilcated and
2. Is much more likely than not to fail.

Even if you fix everything about yourself that is not attracting your mate, which is what the 180 advice, the getting in shape, and "being the best you" implies, you're not with a person who values sex all that much. Highly restrictive sexual times, with the lights out, once every 10 days are not the things that people who actually enjoy sex do. These are the actions of someone who just tolerates sex as a necessary, even somewhat pleasurable, but overall not very important aspect of a relationship.
Cletus is offline  
post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 10:05 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Currently; the planet earth.
Posts: 208
Re: Sex Cycles and Arbitrary Rules

I am sorry to hear that you have been going through this for so many years, I hope you are able to make things better in the future.

I am going to reiterate what a few of the other posters have said. Do not let your partner control your sexuality. Take responsibility for what you want and need. Tell her what you want and why, then let her choose to be a part of it or not. If your sexual desires/needs are to much for her than you will have to make some hard decisions.
leftfield is offline  
post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Big_Jim59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 4
Re: Sex Cycles and Arbitrary Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConanHub View Post
This is going to have to be started by you and you will probably have an uphill battle to break many years worth of bad behavior from both of you and learn and establish healthy, new behavior.

It starts with taking your choice and agency back a little and focusing more on yourself and your personal betterment.

Farside has more personal experience with more ground covered than me so you can probably learn a lot from hearing his story and process.
I know this is right. I am not much of an Alpha Male. I have never done the cave man thing very well but I get a sense that that is what she wants. I have gotten a lot of insight from this post and I really do appreciate all your efforts.I guess the thing that frightens me is not the lack of sex, it's the fact that I am starting to not care. I am seeing things that didn't bother me before. She is willing to help and spend time with her family, drop everything for one of the kids or even worry about the pet's special needs. All the while I feel like I am regarded as furniture or just someone that doesn't need any attention. That's probably my own fault because I am pretty self sufficient. I am also seeing, with your help, that a lot of this is mine to change if I am willing to put in the effort.

Last edited by Big_Jim59; 12-10-2019 at 01:37 PM.
Big_Jim59 is offline  
post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 03:38 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: West Coast USA
Posts: 1,310
Re: Sex Cycles and Arbitrary Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Jim59 View Post
I know this is right. I am not much of an Alpha Male. I have never done the cave man thing very well but I get a sense that that is what she wants. I have gotten a lot of insight from this post and I really do appreciate all your efforts.I guess the thing that frightens me is not the lack of sex, it's the fact that I am starting to not care. I am seeing things that didn't bother me before. She is willing to help and spend time with her family, drop everything for one of the kids or even worry about the pet's special needs. All the while I feel like I am regarded as furniture or just someone that doesn't need any attention. That's probably my own fault because I am pretty self sufficient. I am also seeing, with your help, that a lot of this is mine to change if I am willing to put in the effort.
You're describing the first 25-30 years of my marriage, thankfully the past 10-15 years has seen some improvement. You kind of nailed it when you mentioned the pets special needs. Except in my case, it wasn't special needs; in general, the pets always got the kind of unqualified love and attention that I would have died for. Sex? She reminded me often that she'd be fine with sex once or twice a month, so she was doing me a great favor at once or twice a week. And at that rate she was building a great amount of resentment for sex over the years as well.

The causes are complicated and being worked on. Solutions do not necessarily have to deal with the causes, but I fear if they don't, the solutions won't be long-lived. You'll get her doing her part for a little while, then thinking to herself, why should I have to do this?, while at the same time expecting you to shower her with attaboys because she's "trying."

She needs to understand that she's undermining the things that keep you married. That sex isn't just a physical act but an emotional bonding, an intimacy that is shared only by husband and wife. When it's not shared, it can get to the point where you move on. Is that a consequence she is OK with? The tough part is that she actually has to believe you would move on. It may require a real crisis.

But just going on as things are, it will only get worse. And do NOT accept the idea that post-menopausal means sex should be irrelevant to her. She has an obligation to understand how what she does and doesn't do affects you, and vice versa. If she understands that sex creates a special level of intimacy for you, not just a physical release, maybe things can change. In the worst-case scenario, sex with a transactional element to it (you give her a 30 minute massage that leads to your 7 minutes of sex) might still gain some traction with her and if not, at least illustrate the one-way nature of intimacy in your relationship. She's getting what she wants, but not you.
Casual Observer is offline  
post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 11:20 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 138
Sex Cycles and Arbitrary Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
She needs to understand that she's undermining the things that keep you married. That sex isn't just a physical act but an emotional bonding, an intimacy that is shared only by husband and wife. When it's not shared, it can get to the point where you move on. Is that a consequence she is OK with? The tough part is that she actually has to believe you would move on. It may require a real crisis.

I don’t think women get the emotional bonding part at all especially if they are emotionally avoidant already. I’m not sure if mine does. It’s tough for someone to decide that part of my life is over. The day sex becomes a chore, a favor, a duty or something to be avoided at all cost the relationship is forever changed. To a guy this FEELS the same as finding out your spouse is not in love with you anymore but “wants to stay friends.” This is where you really see where you’re at as a couple.

I see why couples split. She’s built up so many negative emotions around sex and no hormonal desire for sex so she looks forward to that being over for good. He looks at it as he’s no longer sexually needed and she’s painted him into a corner... now she gets her cake and eat it to: love, friendship, financial support, manual labor, no stigma, maintain family, etc. At that point, most guys have a call to make... to let or not let her eat cake.

I mean if he was the sole breadwinner and then just decided to retire and not work I’m sure she would not be happy. If he can take care of himself sexually, same can be said for her taking care of herself financially. Or like sex, do her a favor and get a part-time job.





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Last edited by aaarghdub; 12-17-2019 at 09:32 AM.
aaarghdub is offline  
post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-17-2019, 05:06 AM
Member
 
In Absentia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 2,400
Re: Sex Cycles and Arbitrary Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarghdub View Post
now she gets her cake and eat it to: love, friendship, financial support, manual labor, no stigma, maintain family, etc. At that point, most guys have a call to make... to let or not let her eat cake.
This is where I am and my wife is not going to eat cake. This is what I have decided. It will come in the near future, because I cannot live a lie. It's not just the sex. Our relationship is gone. I can't help but remember how it used to be and this is just a charade. Unsustainable.
In Absentia is offline  
post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-22-2019, 07:35 AM
Member
 
Mr.Married's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Texas !!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 1,764
Re: Sex Cycles and Arbitrary Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Jim59 View Post
I know this is right. I am not much of an Alpha Male. I have never done the cave man thing very well but I get a sense that that is what she wants. I have gotten a lot of insight from this post and I really do appreciate all your efforts.I guess the thing that frightens me is not the lack of sex, it's the fact that I am starting to not care. I am seeing things that didn't bother me before. She is willing to help and spend time with her family, drop everything for one of the kids or even worry about the pet's special needs. All the while I feel like I am regarded as furniture or just someone that doesn't need any attention. That's probably my own fault because I am pretty self sufficient. I am also seeing, with your help, that a lot of this is mine to change if I am willing to put in the effort.

I know this sounds a little strange and a little nasty........but what you need is for her to understand that you do not need or accept your current situation and you are by all means willing to do
anything it takes including the following: 1. What it takes to have a normal loving sex life with her 2. Leaving if it doesn't get any better.


Finally: Losing your alpha male edge is a real bad recipe for the bedroom. You need to take your POWER back. You have given it all away.
Mr.Married is offline  
post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-22-2019, 07:47 AM
 
dadstartingover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 461
Re: Sex Cycles and Arbitrary Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Jim59 View Post
I know this is right. I am not much of an Alpha Male. I have never done the cave man thing very well but I get a sense that that is what she wants. I have gotten a lot of insight from this post and I really do appreciate all your efforts.I guess the thing that frightens me is not the lack of sex, it's the fact that I am starting to not care. I am seeing things that didn't bother me before. She is willing to help and spend time with her family, drop everything for one of the kids or even worry about the pet's special needs. All the while I feel like I am regarded as furniture or just someone that doesn't need any attention. That's probably my own fault because I am pretty self sufficient. I am also seeing, with your help, that a lot of this is mine to change if I am willing to put in the effort.
Yes, but also recognize that this may be (probably) too far gone. There's resentment, years and years of "blah" living, no oomph... You're going to, hopefully, make some really big life changes and shape yourself mentally and physically into a much better husband and man. Her reaction may very well be, "Yeah, I really don't care." This is where a lot of guys just throw their hands up and say, "Oh well... back to the old me." They just live with decades more of no intimacy. The message to the wife is clear: "I need you. Yes I have options in life and yes you have obvious disdain for me... but I'm not going anywhere no matter what." That is precisely the attitude that keeps the status quo. There's zero incentive to change.

I'm an approved vendor here and I wrote a book on subject: dadstartingover.com/the-dead-bedroom-fix


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Check out my books:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I also offer one-on-one coaching for men.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dadstartingover is online now  
post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-22-2019, 08:13 AM
Moderator
 
Lila's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 4,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lila View Post
@Big_Jim59 I'm going to assume from your user name that you are 59 years old.

I am going to take a different approach to your issue but I would like you to answer the following questions first...

1). What would you say are the qualities that you love about your wife?

2). Outside of the sex, are there or have there been other issues in the marriage? Infidelity, extended family drama, deaths in the family, etc.

3). If you were to find yourself single tomorrow, would you consider yourself an attractive partner for dating? Physically fit, financially well off, interesting, charismatic, low emotional baggage, etc...
@Big_Jim59, you never responded to the questions I asked but I'm going to give you advice that didn't rely on answers to these questions.

Your situation is going to be extremely difficult to change at this point in you and your wife's life. I know of one person on this forum who has had success later in life but he was ready to accept a life alone than to continue in a low quality sex marriage. It took tons of sexual therapy and a lot of compromise on both sides.

It is easy for us to tell you to dump your wife of 35 years at 60 years old but the truth is that it's not easy to do. Before you even consider this option you need to decide if it's better to live the rest of your life single and alone than in your current situation with your wife. Finding another partner, whether for a casual or serious relationship, is not guaranteed nor is it easy. Having been through a divorce, and experiencing the single scene post long term marriage, I think you'll get a bigger return investing in sex therapy with your wife than divorcing her in order to find someone more sexually compatible. All of your problems may not be resolved but you might get some of your needs met. My 2 cents.
Lila is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Tags
arbitrary rules, cycle, married, sex

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome