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post #121 of 274 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 07:19 PM
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Re: Work ethic and "success."

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All goods and services are scarce, because they can be provided only by someone who uses effort and resources to produce them, at the expense of any other possible use of that effort and those resources. Price is by used by economists to signal the relative scarcity of a product or service.

Since governments can acquire or control goods and services only by force against those who produce them (or by forcibly taking other resources which they then use to pay for the goods and services in question), governments are parasitical on producers. Not always. The US gives private companies rights to mine for a small fee but does not charge any royalties for whatever is taken away from the mine for the benefit of the private company. In this case, it is doing the American people a disservice. And as I have read in some literature from Ralph Nader, foreign companies benefit from this largess as well.

We can do without governments. We can't do without producers. Without regulations, producers will scorch the earth.

I know which side I'm on.
Northern Europe became "socialist" well, more so than the US after WW2 when there were no other institutions that would / could organize for the benefit of the entire population in the country. And this is how universal healthcare came to be.

I remember in high school being told that the UK was socialist. I thought that was strange with a monarch.

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post #122 of 274 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 07:27 PM
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Re: Work ethic and "success."

Parasitic , let's contemplate how parasitic private companies are or would like to be, especially with government help.

A few years ago JP Morgan offered to render welfare benefits to recipients but also wanted to charge the recipients each they accessed their value card to do so.

Fortunately, enough light was shed on that before the government approved it.

As i wanted to say earlier, some prison companies have given backhanders to judges who give incarcerating sentences and the longer the better. Why Because government contracts pay private prisons on a headcount basis.

In the UK, a private company was caught vharging for leg braces on people who had already died.

And you don't think that's parasitic?
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post #123 of 274 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 08:11 PM
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Re: Work ethic and "success."

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Parasitic , let's contemplate how parasitic private companies are or would like to be, especially with government help.

A few years ago JP Morgan offered to render welfare benefits to recipients but also wanted to charge the recipients each they accessed their value card to do so.

Fortunately, enough light was shed on that before the government approved it.

As i wanted to say earlier, some prison companies have given backhanders to judges who give incarcerating sentences and the longer the better. Why Because government contracts pay private prisons on a headcount basis.

In the UK, a private company was caught charging (the government) for leg braces on people who had already died.
There seems to be a common factor (bolded) in these stories.
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post #124 of 274 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 08:16 PM
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Re: Work ethic and "success."

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As i wanted to say earlier, some prison companies have given backhanders to judges who give incarcerating sentences and the longer the better. Why Because government contracts pay private prisons on a headcount basis.
I’m interested in reading more about this. Do you have a source in mind?

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post #125 of 274 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Work ethic and "success."

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Why does she work there? Is it the best opportunity she has? If so, why is that? Would she be better off if that opportunity did not exist?
Groceries are high because the Federal Reserve has been destroying the value of the dollar

As for being a subcontractor, why would anyone do that if they had a better alternative? Why don't they have a better alternative?
I agree on the fed reserve.

When I hear capitalism I hear take advantage of anyone to ignorant or mentally incompetent to know any better.

They agree to be sub-contractors for several reasons, some out of ignorance, others out of the fact they are told if they don't they lose their job, and someone will be hired who will accept it.

I have 2 occasional clients whose tech-jobs were outsourced. One was offered a deal to train his successor and he told them to shove it. The other one lost his job to an hb-1 visa recipient.
All to increase profits.
I know the h1-b visa is government involvement. But how are they at fault for not being as well off as before? They worked their asses off, got an education, did their time at their companies one was proficient in several areas thought he was a great employee yet was sent packing in less than a few months.

When I here capitalism those are just a few of the things I see.

As for the cashier and many like her.
There are simply some people who don't have the capacity to do certain things. Who don't have the capacity to be high wage earners, and they are taken advantage of and used as fodder for the machine.

Lets compare them to an elderly person who gets a monthly check. If someone were to take the check from them, and only give back enough of it to barely meet their needs, and keep the rest so they could buy more things people would be calling them lowlife ****s crying for a lynching. Saying the elderly person was being taken advantage of.

Yet when employers do so to employees it's somehow the employees fault because they didn't get the right education, aren't working hard enough etc instead of the possibility they are still people who may not be able to do any better.
I know how hard it can be to get someone who will work, so the fact someone shows up everyday and stays off their cell phone speaks a lot.

And because employees, who perhaps can only be a cashier, are taken advantage of it affects everyone.

Take my field. First to offer what I do in my area. Took me several days figuring costs, overhead, equipment...clientèle base...to come up with a price range.

Because of financial oppression here, and the idea of being overwhelmed with work, or busy, as being successful, I now have competition at half the price I charge.

People here are so used to making $10-20 an hour working for someone else, they think if they are charging $20 they are making a killing. What they don't know is the person they worked for was charging 50-80 an hour for them to be on a job. That's why he has 3 housed in 3 states all kinds of land, boats, race cars.....

Wondering how the hell they could make it, and always looking for ways to cut overhead, I've gotten a few of them into discussions.

I haven't talked to a single one who is clearing over minimum wage after their overhead, tool expense and replacement

How do they do it? Public assistance. Already on it because the people they worked for before, to maximize profits, paid them so little they were below poverty level. although they could have easily paid them double to get their employee out of poverty level and still made money.

Or their wife is a high paid nurse. Or they are getting disability checks.

Because they were paid so little it affects anyone who wants to start a service business here.

All the corporate slogans of 'join our family,' "our employees are like family." Corporate heads must really have a hell of a dysfunctional family if the way they treat employees is any indicator of how family is treated.

Capitalism promotes division, competition, and use of people for financial gain of a few.


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post #126 of 274 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Work ethic and "success."

This is the result of all the "ism's."

Just in my area. In 30 yrs Millions of acres of deciduous tree which produced edible foods, 100yr old wild grape vines, wiped out, and ge quick growth conifers planted. Gone are quail, most squirrel, and many birds.
Those trees to save the country. Trash!! Grow so fast not enough lignan to hold it together. Drop a board and it shatters. Doesn't even make good paper.

Several land fills filled covered and sealed leaching filth into the ground, and surface water. Which future generations will have to deal with.

30yrs ago we drank out of streams here. Can't now.

30yrs ago eat all the fish you wanted to catch. Now a limit of one serving per month for all children and child bearing age women.


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The only difference between 'propaganda' and 'education,' really, is in the point of view. The advocacy of what we believe in is education. The advocacy of what we don't believe in is propaganda.-Edward Bernays
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post #127 of 274 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 09:07 PM
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Re: Work ethic and "success."

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I agree on the fed reserve.
Good, because that is a major source of our problems today.

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Capitalism promotes division, competition, and use of people for financial gain of a few.
What is the alternative?

Remember, SOMEONE has to decide how to make use of each person's resources. The only possibilities are:

1. That person, or
2. Some other person.

I prefer #1, when referring to legal adults at least. I think the reasons should be obvious, but apparently they aren't to some people.

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post #128 of 274 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 09:24 PM
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Re: Work ethic and "success."

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This is all very interesting but wildly random, doctor.

Now kindly return to your post, read it, then try to explain what you meant by “Somalia must be high on your list of good places then” in context to my post you quoted. If you need Andy’s help please add him.
Somalia has no government. Which is important for tech.

Can't get any more relevant than that. Either you have or you don't. Unless there's a qualifier.

Government is a necessary evil. The question is, do is their primary beneficiary, Bechtel or Bob?
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post #129 of 274 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 09:27 PM
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Re: Work ethic and "success."

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I’m interested in reading more about this. Do you have a source in mind?
https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news...incarceration/

I'm sure the source will be discredited in 5..4..3..2..1
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post #130 of 274 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 09:35 PM
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Re: Work ethic and &quot;success.&quot;

Example of government in the Trump era... AT&T lobbied to merge with Time Warner. The merger was met with doubts early on but the companies said it would enable lower prices and more channels.

A couple weeks after the merger was approved, DirecTV Now went up by $5 and of course everyone else followed. A year later, last couple weeks, DirecTV Now increased price again by $10 and seriously reduced channel offerings, from 65 to 40 (removed "expensive" non Time Warner channels).

Now, only a moron would think that mergers are good for the consumer. Look at airlines. Look at cell service. Pharma. Cable TV. You name it.

Yet that's how capitalism works. Because there's too many cheerleaders cheering for big business never mind they get zip out of it.

Edit: add a link so the Faithful may learn of the epic battles between good and evil.

https://deadline.com/2019/03/viacom-...ne-1202578534/


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post #131 of 274 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 09:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Work ethic and "success."

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Good, because that is a major source of our problems today.



What is the alternative?

Remember, SOMEONE has to decide how to make use of each person's resources. The only possibilities are:

1. That person, or
2. Some other person.

I prefer #1, when referring to legal adults at least. I think the reasons should be obvious, but apparently they aren't to some people.

Wish I knew a good alternative easily, and quickly implemented.
It could begin with ethics and morality. We are taught we are responsible for number one, instead of having a responsibility, and obligation to improve the communities in which we live, and lives of those we come into contact with, we pass the buck to officials, or turn our eyes as we can't be bothered. In many ways we are taught to maintain a type of perpetual adolescence. (psych portion of thoughts coming out.)

Doesn't common human decency teach those who are more capable have an obligation to look after those who are less fortunate ability wise instead of extorting them, or those under their authority?
We see examples in the military, old boy scout ethics all the time, but when it comes to money why must one go crazy and extort?

ETA: Fed reserve is a ponzi. Most think because of its name it is part of the government. LOL


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The only difference between 'propaganda' and 'education,' really, is in the point of view. The advocacy of what we believe in is education. The advocacy of what we don't believe in is propaganda.-Edward Bernays
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post #132 of 274 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 10:04 PM
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Re: Work ethic and "success."

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https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news...incarceration/

I'm sure the source will be discredited in 5..4..3..2..1
Doctor, the only part of this which addresses my question is the following sentence, unless I missed more. So, with that I’ll try to find more details. I’d like to read more examples so perhaps NextTimeAround might share some.

Quote:
Summary

The most egregious case of such direct corruption by PPCs occurred in Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, where two judges sentenced thousands of juveniles who were not represented by an attorney and had not committed any criminal offense to incarceration in private prisons owned by a PPC that was giving kickbacks to the judges.

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post #133 of 274 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 10:17 PM
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Re: Work ethic and "success."

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Somalia has no government. Which is important for tech.

Can't get any more relevant than that. Either you have or you don't. Unless there's a qualifier.

Government is a necessary evil. The question is, do is their primary beneficiary, Bechtel or Bob?
Doctor, below are the quotes. I think you can see attheend referred to the border wall as a form of socialism. I’m not sure I’d agree without doing some gymnastics. So, I offered better examples of socialism at work in the United States: welfare and public education.

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(How is allocating taxes to building a border wall not considered socialist?)
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Welfare and public education are better examples of a form of socialism.
Then comes your baffling post. It makes no sense whatsoever. Do try to focus and keep up, doctor. Doctor, right?

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Somalia must be high on your list for good places then...

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post #134 of 274 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 10:30 PM
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Re: Work ethic and "success."

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As for the cashier and many like her.
There are simply some people who don't have the capacity to do certain things. Who don't have the capacity to be high wage earners, and they are taken advantage of and used as fodder for the machine.

The labor market will no longer accommodate average people.
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post #135 of 274 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Work ethic and "success."

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The labor market will no longer accommodate average people.
It could, and allow them live decently, if they weren't being taken advantage of otherwise, they shouldn't have done away with eugenics instead of starting wars to get rid of, they have been called, useless eaters.


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