Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
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post #16 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 02:17 PM
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married

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Maybe marriage will be a weird archaic practice in a few generations?
IMO, it is that now. And I don't understand all the hand wringing about young people not getting married. They are smarter than we and our parents were. They are leading themselves away from the same mistakes we all made.

And then all the old people worry and hand wring and say "kids these days they are ruining society". Phhhhtttt. Kids are saving their own future because they are doing it differently.

Also anecdotal....my son has decided he does not want any biological kids, ever. So he had a vasectomy at age 29. He figures if he wants to be around kids or add to their future, there are plenty of unwanted kids who need homes, he can be a step parent, he can foster kids, or he can give his time to charities that benefit kids. To me this was the most mature and awesome decision.

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post #17 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 02:17 PM
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You need to find a new place to pick up women !!!!
I don't mean the innie and outie bits that make things fun.

I mean in mindset, thinking, approaches to relationships, and sex.

For example, I was always confused by my buddy's preconceptions that girls somehow don't like sex and you need to somehow get them to fall in love with you to get naked. All I found is that you needed to not be an *******, be straightforward, and just ask them to get naked, and often enough they would.
Yeah I know. I’m just BAF at work with nothing to do and a slow internet connection. After a month here I’m having difficulty making an adult worthy sentence.

Most of your post are pretty good.
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post #18 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 02:19 PM
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married

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IMO, it is that now. And I don't understand all the hand wringing about young people not getting married. They are smarter than we and our parents were. They are leading themselves away from the same mistakes we all made.

And then all the old people worry and hand wring and say "kids these days they are ruining society". Phhhhtttt. Kids are saving their own future because they are doing it differently.

Also anecdotal....my son has decided he does not want any biological kids, ever. So he had a vasectomy at age 29. He figures if he wants to be around kids or add to their future, there are plenty of unwanted kids who need homes, he can be a step parent, he can foster kids, or he can give him time to charities that benefit kids. To me this was the most mature and awesome decision.
I'm not wringing my hands, I'm curious about the future.

Soon enough it will likely be commonplace to not have to have sex to have kids, or give birth to them at all. Select your genotypes and somebody else's, mix and match... and in 9 months you get a baby like you get an amazon delivery.
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post #19 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 02:20 PM
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married

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I'm not wringing my hands, I'm curious about the future.

Soon enough it will likely be commonplace to not have to have sex to have kids, or give birth to them at all. Select your genotypes and somebody else's, mix and match... and in 9 months you get a baby like you get an amazon delivery.
Doesn't bother me a bit. The future is whatever it is, and it is about the people who will be alive then, not us. The young people now are creating their future around their needs and desires, not ours.

ETA: along with the awesome way in which my son has made a decision about his own fertility and paternity, and a little along the lines of what you are saying above...

My daughter carried a surrogate baby for a gay couple who live in France. They bought the egg from another woman, so it is not my daughter's bio baby, she was just the oven. It cost the couple over $100K to do this but they now have a beautiful perfect and healthy designer baby girl. Progress and technology made this happen, but there still had to be sperm, eggs, and a uterus. Tech will not be able to over-ride the need for those factors to exist. They may be able to alter the dna of embryos in the future, but they still have to start with an embryo.

Last edited by Faithful Wife; 11-21-2019 at 02:28 PM.
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post #20 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 02:41 PM
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married

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They may be able to alter the dna of embryos in the future, but they still have to start with an embryo.
Surprisingly, no. Using CRISPR and other technologies may make it viable - and soon - to create a baby's genome directly on a computer, and send that directly to an artificially created embryo in a single process.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...-egg-or-sperm/

Right now it's skin cells -> embryo but it doesn't seem far fetched to create nucleus free stem cells directly using something like 3-D biological printing, then add whatever genome you want to add directly to it. Then let it replicate.
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post #21 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 02:44 PM
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married

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Surprisingly, no. Using CRISPR and other technologies may make it viable - and soon - to create a baby's genome directly on a computer, and send that directly to an artificially created embryo in a single process.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...-egg-or-sperm/

Right now it's skin cells -> embryo but it doesn't seem far fetched to create nucleus free stem cells directly using something like 3-D biological printing, then add whatever genome you want to add directly to it. Then let it replicate.
It still will take awhile before they can show that an actual living baby can survive this entire process. However, even so, I think it's great. Unwanted babies are a problem for everyone (especially the baby!) Wanted babies will in theory cause less unwanted babies. Healthy babies are happier than unhealthy ones. All of the tech coming up will also allow same sex couples to have their own babies (except for the need of a womb in some cases). To me this is all progressive and helpful to future generations.
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post #22 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 02:49 PM
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married

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It still will take awhile before they can show that an actual living baby can survive this entire process. However, even so, I think it's great. Unwanted babies are a problem for everyone (especially the baby!) Wanted babies will in theory cause less unwanted babies. Healthy babies are happier than unhealthy ones. All of the tech coming up will also allow same sex couples to have their own babies (except for the need of a womb in some cases). To me this is all progressive and helpful to future generations.
I remember having to explain to my kids what an encyclopedia was - I still have the one we scrimped and saved for in my youth, and was expensive, and they asked why we had one and why it was important.

I explained that when we were doing homework or trying to learn about something, there was no internet (at least the way we have it today), so it was either go to the library, or be lucky enough to have an encyclopedia. They looked at me shocked, and asked "what do you mean, go to the library?" So I said "I'd get on my bike or walk to the library, look stuff up on cards or ask the librarian, and find the books, read them, then write my paper or whatever by hand. And if someone else had the book, I waited for them to return it."

To which they asked, "but that would take all day!" And I said "Yes, or longer."

I think my kids will be explaining to their kids what driving a car is, and maybe their kids will be explaining to their kids what being pregnant is.
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post #23 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 03:11 PM
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@Marduk I don’t think the new tech that will allow designer babies and even ones that have an artificial womb will stop humans from still having natural babies. Unless all the humans become sterilized or infertile, there will always be natural babies. It will still be the most efficient way to have a baby and it will still happen intentionally or unintentionally as long as people are having sex.

Another good thing that will happen in the future is safe effective birth control for men. When that happens, men will be able to have sex without causing an unwanted pregnancy, which will be awesome. But just as women do have effective birth control now and can choose when they want to have a baby if they want one, men will still choose to do that too. So there will still be babies, just less unwanted ones.
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post #24 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 03:52 PM
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married

I honestly can't believe this "article" got so many responses. Here is my take. Literally NOTHING has changed. Men aren't sitting around thinking I am not going to commit because I am angry about feminism. I don't recall me or any of my friends in our twenties wanting to settle down and have kids. It just wasn't on our radar. It was one of those, "maybe one day" kind of things. We just wanted to have fun. So thats what we did. You date, you meet people, and you have cool experiences, until one day you meet someone and you feel like you only want to be with them, and until that moment happens to you. You'll swear up and down that you aren't ready to settle down. But most of us will have that moment, and I don't see that changing. Ever. People are going to continue to couple up in long term committed relationships.
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post #25 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 04:33 PM
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married

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@Marduk I don’t think the new tech that will allow designer babies and even ones that have an artificial womb will stop humans from still having natural babies. Unless all the humans become sterilized or infertile, there will always be natural babies. It will still be the most efficient way to have a baby and it will still happen intentionally or unintentionally as long as people are having sex.

Another good thing that will happen in the future is safe effective birth control for men. When that happens, men will be able to have sex without causing an unwanted pregnancy, which will be awesome. But just as women do have effective birth control now and can choose when they want to have a baby if they want one, men will still choose to do that too. So there will still be babies, just less unwanted ones.
I'm not so sure... I could see, say, 2-5 generations down the line, people purposefully sterilizing themselves before puberty, or even purposefully having sterile babies.

We have moved so much to a convenience culture with no sign of that stopping. Having a baby is very inconvenient, dangerous, and you don't know what you're going to get. So I could see it being normalized very quickly to 'order' one instead should you wish to reproduce.

Take hunting, for example. Sure, a few people still hunt - but it's a fraction of the people that eat. Most people just go to the grocery store or increasingly, order the food to your door.

Also, laterally, a key component limiting human intelligence is likely squeezing a skull through a birth canal - that problem also goes away with engineered children. If we naturally sexually select for intelligence - which we do - and you could only have a > 160 IQ baby non-naturally... well, soon, all babies will be non-natural. Because only the ones that are get selected for. That's evolution.

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post #26 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 04:36 PM
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married

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IMO, it is that now. And I don't understand all the hand wringing about young people not getting married. They are smarter than we and our parents were. They are leading themselves away from the same mistakes we all made.

And then all the old people worry and hand wring and say "kids these days they are ruining society". Phhhhtttt. Kids are saving their own future because they are doing it differently.

Also anecdotal....my son has decided he does not want any biological kids, ever. So he had a vasectomy at age 29. He figures if he wants to be around kids or add to their future, there are plenty of unwanted kids who need homes, he can be a step parent, he can foster kids, or he can give his time to charities that benefit kids. To me this was the most mature and awesome decision.
You know what I find funny? Everyone points to porn, video games, apathy and lack of religion.

I’d like to see a study on parenting. I told my kids to live on your own, get an education travel the world and then decide if you want to get married and have kids. I know many parents like this now. I was taught education, marriage and family.

Oh, to add, I was brought up extremely religious.
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post #27 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 04:46 PM
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married

20s is rather young, many men that age are still in university or beginning their careers let alone trying to settle down buying an engagement ring, arranging a marriage, securing a deposit for their first home, etc etc. Not to mention most around that age would have much to learn about life and relationships in general, I know when I first joined this forum in my 20s I was an idiot and lunatic, still am kinda.

30+, sure I guess, still the 20-34 thing not such a fan of - people shouldn't be pushing to get married young and if they want strong families not countless broken families, society needs to acknowledge that fact. I'm a product of a broken family and due to my immaturity and youth I also have my own broken family that can never be repaired. I only wish I wasn't pressured to commitment until I was sure I had found the right one and that I was ready.

I'd say marital age should be 30+ not less, yes, this may mean giving less time on the fertility window but 10 years is a long time.
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post #28 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 06:55 PM
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married

I got a laugh out of "cultural morays".
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post #29 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-22-2019, 09:02 AM
 
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married

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IMO, it is that now. And I don't understand all the hand wringing about young people not getting married.
As with most things, follow the money. Our economy hums along nicely when we have men and women marrying and having babies.
Some interesting facts (from my book "NOW WHAT?"):

$7 trillion in consumer and business spending is contributed by women in the U.S.
2/3 of the consumer wealth in America will belong to women within the next decade.
85% of purchases and purchase influences are made by women.
50% of products marketed to men are purchased by women.
60% of all personal wealth in American is held by women.
51% of all stock in America is held by women.
92% of vacations are purchased by women.
93% of food is purchased by women.
Over the course of a family’s life, 90% of married women will control its wealth.

Now... how does a single man compare? Look at the Herbivore Men in Japan. They stay in. They play games. They're on the internet. How about the guys who have luck with women? They just bounce from girl to girl and hang out with their buddies. There's no house and 2.5 kids. There's no minivan or pointless SUV. There's no nursery full of baby stuff. There's no $30k wedding. Hell, there aren't even decorations on the damn walls! There's a big screen tv, an xbox, a recliner, and some cereal in the cupboard.

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post #30 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-22-2019, 10:46 AM
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married

I don't think marriage is as necessary as it used to be because there are a lot more options for how people live their lives.

I'm married, but it doesn't really matter (to either of us) we could just as easily have been living together for 30 years. No kids, so the marriage doesn't really change anything important

In a world where gender rolls were strongly defined, marriage was part of being functioning unit of society. Today its different, my wife and and would both be completely functional separately - being together is something we want, not something we need.

I have no objection to people who want a traditional lifestyle, its just that there are also other options available.
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