Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
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post #16 of 203 (permalink) Old 10-08-2011, 02:16 PM
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Re: Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

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post #17 of 203 (permalink) Old 10-10-2011, 03:44 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

Bumped for the Monday influx of noobs
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post #18 of 203 (permalink) Old 10-20-2011, 08:57 PM
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Re: Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

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post #19 of 203 (permalink) Old 10-25-2011, 07:14 AM
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Re: Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

Why is this not a sticky yet?

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."ALBERT EINSTEIN
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post #20 of 203 (permalink) Old 10-25-2011, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

mods havent stickied anything in ages it appears

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post #21 of 203 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 03:38 PM
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Re: Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

Bumping for this weekend... this post is the reason I'll post.

"Sticky it" really would be a great idea...
Bumping it up will be my weekend task from now on
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post #22 of 203 (permalink) Old 10-31-2011, 12:10 AM
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Re: Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

Also for the newbies: Please don't refer your wayward spouse to this site in the hopes that they will read the stories here and come to their senses and end their affair. No one who's cheating and in the affair fog is going to come to this site, have an epiphany, then suddenly end their affair, give full disclosure, and suddenly be remorseful for what they have done.

We talk about methods here of detection and investigation on these forums and WS's may find ideas on how to take their affair further underground, making it that much harder for the BS.

So the first rule of TAM is: Don't talk about TAM! Especially with your WS.


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post #23 of 203 (permalink) Old 10-31-2011, 12:15 AM
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Re: Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

List of Acronyms of Infidelity so the newbies can follow the infidelity lingo here.

WW = Wayward Wife
WH = Wayward Husband
WS = Wayward Spouse
BH = Betrayed Husband
BW = Betrayed Wife
BS = Betrayed Spouse
LS = Loyal Spouse
DW = Disloyal Wife
DH = Disloyal Husband
DS = Disloyal Spouse
fWW = Former Wayward Wife
fWH = Former Wayward Husband
fWS = Former Wayward Spouse
OM = Other Man
OW = Other Woman
OMW = Other Man’s Wife
OWH = Other Woman’s Husband
AP = Affair Partner
R = Reconciliation
D = Divorce
DDay = Discovery Day
STBXH = Soon To Be Ex Husband
STBXW = Soon To Be Ex Wife
ILYBINILWY = I Love You But I’m Not In Love With You
EA = Emotional Affair
PA = Physical Affair
A = Affair
KISA = Knight In Shining Armor
VAR = Voice Activated Recorder
TT = Trickle Truth
SAHM = Stay At Home Mom
SAHD = Stay At Home Dad
TF = Toxic Friend(s)


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Last edited by lordmayhem; 12-17-2011 at 08:48 AM. Reason: added acronym for toxic friend
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post #24 of 203 (permalink) Old 10-31-2011, 07:36 AM
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Re: Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmayhem View Post
Also for the newbies: Please don't refer your wayward spouse to this site in the hopes that they will read the stories here and come to their senses and end their affair. No one who's cheating and in the affair fog is going to come to this site, have an epiphany, then suddenly end their affair, give full disclosure, and suddenly be remorseful for what they have done.

We talk about methods here of detection and investigation on these forums and WS's may find ideas on how to take their affair further underground, making it that much harder for the BS.

So the first rule of TAM is: Don't talk about TAM! Especially with your WS.


Great Post Lord!


Also, Newbies,

Do not tell your wayward your means of knowing about their affiar. Never reveal your sources,

Never Beg, Cry or argue in front of or with them. You must take control of the situation and be the calm and logical one. Not saying try to reason them with logic.... Logic is your friend, not theirs.

Begin the process of separating your finances, in case the relationship should implode. Make sure you have protected yourself financially as much as possible. This means separate checking, savings and credit cards. Cancel or place on hold any and all joint accouts or credit cards you can. Cancel any credit card in your name that your wayward may have access to or secure the cards from them.

Lastly, if you have proof, such as emails, texts, voice mails or such, get the info for the OM/OW's spouse/significant other and expose to them. Do not even hint to your wayward you are going to do that, just do it. There are many opinions here on whether you should or should not do that, but many of us on here see that the situations that have worked out for the marriage are thr ones where the affair was exposed to the OM/OW's significant other. The ones that were not exposed have almost never recovered.

Q~


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post #25 of 203 (permalink) Old 11-19-2011, 10:21 PM
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Re: Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

A question then. In my case I was told a lie about how often they were in contact and who contacted who after the EA was exposed in therapy *and supposedly ended. I never said anything directly like "I have copies of your emails or phone bills - whatever" but I did say "Thats a lie here is what really happened" Once you have established the fact such as an EA is it still important to not reveal anything you know? Or just "how" you know? In my case it just made her clam up (more) and say things like "I had no idea it was that much contact" and then argue some sub point.

Sorry - another question. When the WW says she wants to patch things up and has stopped contact. And things become super normal (Sex life returns it appears there is no contact - at least obvious) is that her sweeping it under the rug and if I go along but say in therapy this is not even close to over in my case???

I would really like to hear about people who found a way to R things. What worked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrQuatto View Post


Great Post Lord!


Also, Newbies,

Do not tell your wayward your means of knowing about their affiar. Never reveal your sources,

Never Beg, Cry or argue in front of or with them. You must take control of the situation and be the calm and logical one. Not saying try to reason them with logic.... Logic is your friend, not theirs.

Begin the process of separating your finances, in case the relationship should implode. Make sure you have protected yourself financially as much as possible. This means separate checking, savings and credit cards. Cancel or place on hold any and all joint accouts or credit cards you can. Cancel any credit card in your name that your wayward may have access to or secure the cards from them.

Lastly, if you have proof, such as emails, texts, voice mails or such, get the info for the OM/OW's spouse/significant other and expose to them. Do not even hint to your wayward you are going to do that, just do it. There are many opinions here on whether you should or should not do that, but many of us on here see that the situations that have worked out for the marriage are thr ones where the affair was exposed to the OM/OW's significant other. The ones that were not exposed have almost never recovered.

Q~


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post #26 of 203 (permalink) Old 11-25-2011, 09:50 PM
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Re: Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

X, the reason you dont reveal your sources is so they don't move to an alternative form of communication, ie secret phone or email accounts, etc.

As for how to deal with the lies, i would simply say you know that x # of times or x situation was not a true an accurate #. Let them fret over how you know. That helps blow the secrecy off the affair and makes them face a little bit of reality.

Q~


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post #27 of 203 (permalink) Old 11-28-2011, 02:05 AM
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Re: Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

Common Terms/Phrases About Infidelity

Bunny Boiler - taken from the Glenn Close character in 'Fatal Attraction', boiling her Ex'es pet rabbit. After a relationship break up, the person who wants some kind of revenge, like stalking, or harassment

Cake Eater – taken from the common phrase: Having their cake and eating it too. When the WS wants to have the security of marriage while at the same time, enjoy the affair. When the spouses are separated, the WS is described as cake eating when they try to keep in contact with the WS and give them the idea that the marriage can be salvaged, yet they are still carrying on the affair, in essence, keeping the BS on the line as their back up plan. Another term is “on the fence”.

DDay – Otherwise known as Discovery Day. This is the initial period when the BS actually learns of the affair, either through investigation, being informed of the A, or if the WS confesses to the A. The initial pain that occurs on DDay can be indescribable.

Emotional Roller Coaster – a normal result of being betrayed after D-Day. The BS will experience wide swings of emotion after being betrayed. These feelings can change from moment to moment or day to day, or as the result of having a trigger. One moment, the BS will feel extreme anger towards their WS, then the emotion swings the other way and they will feel love toward their WS and feel they cannot live without them.

False R – False Reconciliation is when the WS has kept in contact with the Other Person (OP) and taken the affair underground and the BS discovers the communication, or when the WS breaks No Contact (NC) and it is discovered. This False R is another DDay.

Fishing – due to the extremely strong addiction that an affair brings, one of the affair partners will break NC and attempt to send out a feeler or “fish” for renewed contact. This can be as simple as a “How are you?”, “Are you okay?”, “Miss You”, etc, which can be sent thru email, text, or a brief phone call.

Fog - The term “affair fog” is often used by experts and affair victims to describe the euphoria that someone involved in an affair feels. Think of how good you felt when you first fell in love. During this period, the cheater will often rationalize their actions in order to minimize their feelings of guilt — often to the extent that they “invent” reasons for having the affair in the first place. Healing from infidelity is impossible while one is in this fog.

The wayward spouse may convince themselves that they are in a bad marriage or that their spouse doesn’t really love or understand them, when that really isn’t necessarily the case. Soon the cheating spouse begins to actually believe these lies that they have been telling themselves and therefore act accordingly by treating their spouse badly yet treating their affair partner in a loving and affectionate way. This is how the affair addiction begins to take momentum.

An affair fog is nothing more than a fantasy created by the affair partners. All the wonderful qualities each partner possess are without flaws, weaknesses or selfishness. The affair partners are under the influence of an addictive drug similar to a teenager in love, and unfortunately it is very difficult to remove them from this fog.

The Affair Fog

Hypervigilance – after the emotional devastation of D-Day, the BS often becomes hypervigilant because of the extreme emotional trauma as the result of all trust being broken by the WS. The BS will be watching the WS intensely, looking for any and all threats.

Hysterical Bonding – from the SI website: Upon being confronted with the undeniable reality that their most trusted spouse has betrayed them with another, some BS's experience an overwhelming sexual desire for their wayward spouse. Many couples claim to have had the best, most intense and loving sex of their relationship during the period following the discovery of an affair, (generally a few weeks to several months), often trying new things and experimenting in ways they had never considered before. This phenomenon is termed "Hysterical Bonding.

There is very little information on this phenomenon, but it appears to be a primal, instinctual way for the partners to reconnect and reclaim each other. While it may feel counter-intuitive to the BS; as if they are "rewarding" the WS for the affair, hysterical bonding can be a stepping stone to reconciliation. The intimacy encourages communication and a closeness that may otherwise take some time to re-build.

The occurrence or absence of hysterical bonding does not appear to be an indicator of successful reconciliation. Many other factors, such as the WS's remorse and openness are far more reliable indicators. Hysterical bonding is, however, normal, and nothing for the BS to be alarmed about or ashamed about experiencing. In fact, it has been said it is the one positive in an otherwise long and miserable experience, so enjoy it while it lasts!

Limbo – This is the stage every BS is in on and after DDay. The A can still be ongoing, or it may have already stopped. It’s called limbo because the BS has not moved toward D, and he/she not moved toward R. Only decisive action towards R or D will get the BS out of limbo. Many BSs are in False R because they tried to R too quickly before conditions and requirements for True R are met, and are therefore still in limbo. Being in limbo can be the most agonizing part of discovering an A.

Mind Movies – This is when a BS has flashbacks or imagines what the BS was doing with their AP, such as imagining them texting or talking on the phone, chatting on the computer, and/or imagining their WS having sex with their AP. Some mind movies are actually worse than what happened in reality, while others are tame in comparison to what their WS did with their AP (think porno style sex). Many BSs constantly have mind movies during the intial period right after DDay, or even before DDay when they suspect their WS is having an A. Mind movies can occur at any stage of the healing process, although it seems to occur less and less frequently as time goes by and the R process is going fairly well.

Rug Sweeping – the act of forgiving a wayward spouse for the affair too quickly and trying to reconcile with the WS and move on and put the affair behind them. This is the most common mistake that newly betrayed spouses make. No issues are resolved, and usually results in another D-Day. BS’s and WS’s rug sweep for different reasons. BS’s rug sweep because they are in shock and denial, want to avoid any further emotional pain and desperately want to save their marriages. WSs rug sweep because they don’t want to be held accountable for the affair and suffer any further guilt (if they have any guilt at all), or they want to take the affair further underground.

Going Underground – Upon being discovered on D-Day, because of the addictive nature of the affair and the WS still being in the fog, the WS will often continue the affair using more secretive means

Trickle Truth (TT) - the act of minimizing actions during an affair. The WS will often only admit after many denials, that information that he/she thinks their BS knows about. The truth only slowly trickles out after each new discovery that the BS makes. Each time TT happens, it is considered another D-Day, sending the BS into yet another agonizing incident of pain. For example: A WS will often say their AP is just a friend, then the BS will discover more. Only when confronted with more evidence or further questioning, the WS may only admit to hugging and/or kissing, then when confronted with more evidence or questioning, admit to having oral sex, or a single sexual encounter, when in reality, it was more than a single sexual encounter. WSs will often say the sex was bad.

Triggers - These are events or circumstances that will “trigger” a BSs memory of the A, or even trigger a mind movie. These can range from a holiday, a picture, the way a BS acts, etc. Basically anything that triggers a memory of the A or mind movies. Triggers can be devastating, and reminds the BS of the pain they experienced from the A. A remorseful WS should be helping the BS when he/she triggers. Triggers seem to come less and less often as time goes by. Some will always have some kind of trigger that reminds them of the A. It is completely normal to have triggers.

True R – True Reconciliation is when the WS has kept NC with their AP and it has been verified. This is when the WS is truly remorseful in their actions. They are willingly transparent, and their behavior has changed and they have recommitted to their BS, the marriage, and/or any children. A truly remorseful WS will not rug sweep and is willing to discuss the A without getting defensive. They are willing to be transparent without getting defensive. They are willing to do anything to help the BS regain their trust in them. Both spouses are working on themselves and the marriage.


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post #28 of 203 (permalink) Old 11-28-2011, 07:32 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

edited the first page so it includes the two LM posts on the 1st page

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post #29 of 203 (permalink) Old 11-28-2011, 09:52 AM
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Re: Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

I remember when I was in my situation, I did not want to accept all the negative advice I was hearing and ended up doing things “my way”. By “my way” I mean I did everything wrong. I made every mistake in the book thinking I was the exception to the rule and that all the advice I read was from people who were bitter trying to live through me. They just wanted my WW to suffer because of what happened to them. This was my own denial talking.

What I learned is NOBODY is the exception and the “fog” isn’t just for the WS, the BS goes through it to. People in affair act in a VERY predictable manner and they almost always end the same way and react the same way to stimulus.


A few thoughts:
You can’t “nice” them out of an affair. Being nice enables affairs and basically lets them get away with it so they’ll do it again. There HAS to be negative consequences or nothing will be gained.

Affairs are addictions and they will act just like a drug addict. They will lie and hide their affairs and take advantage of your kindness to continue the affair. They will also, like a drug addict, make the affair their top priority; ahead of you, the marriage, the kids, their own job, ect.

Affairs survive in darkness; they can last years if nobody knows about them but will die if exposed. The appeal is that it’s secret and taboo so once it is exposed then reality sets in. Reality is the number one killer of affairs.

Affairs usually only fill one void in the WS life (no pun intended). While in an affair the other “voids” are still taken care of by the BS but is overlooked by the WS at the time. One of the primary reasons 97% of affairs die once they are exposed is because the BS cuts off their support and the WS realizes their BS did more for them than they thought. Very much a “don’t know what you got until it’s gone” thing. The AP might be good at saying the right things but might suck at sex, money, taking care of the kids, have things in common, ect. These are things the WS won’t realize until they actually try to have a relationship with them.

Affairs make the WS feel “high”. To counteract this I suggest anxiety. The fear of losing everything (the BS, their marriage, their kids, their home, job) will force them to think about if it’s really worth it. It takes a while before it all sinks in which is needed (weeks, sometimes months). Never trust them if they do a 180 overnight (they want the AP one minute, the marriage the next). Nothing ever changes for good overnight.

Time is on your side. Once an affair has been exposed then the clock is ticking for it to end. Emotions can’t be turned off overnight so it will take a few months before it will resolve itself. Rushing things is a recipe for failure.

Exposing the A to the other BS is VERY important. This tends to get the AP off your back by making them focus on their own relationship plus it’s just the right thing to do. Wouldn’t you want to know? I didn’t do this and I wish I had.

180/Tough Love approach tends to be the ONLY method that works. You can’t change the WS but you can change yourself and that will have an effect on them. The goal is to make yourself happy without them and show them you don’t need them. They cheated because they didn’t respect you and odds are you don’t even respect yourself. Once they realize you will be fine without them they tend to panic and realize they made a mistake and try to win you back.

The people who have the best chance to reconcile are the ones that DON’T want to reconcile. I don’t know how many stories I’ve read where the BS finds out about an affair, blows their top and immediately files for a divorce and flat out rejects anything the WS says and then complains because the WS is BEGGING AND PLEADING to work on the marriage. This is the holy grail of most BS and yet they are complaining about it.

Be careful what you wish for. When someone cheats that’s a deal breaker for most but some people have their egos so crushed that they will put up with anything to get the WS back. Once they get them back then resentment rears its ugly head. Suddenly you realized that they screwed around and they get rewarded by having a better spouse and you get “rewarded” by getting back an unfaithful spouse. Ask yourself if it’s really worth it?

Don’t be afraid of ending things, even if you have to bluff. Reassuring them that you will always be there for them and that you don’t want a divorce takes away any motivation to stop and work on the marriage. Why would they if you are not going to do anything about it and volunteer to be a backup plan?

Don’t wait on them; move forward as if you are getting a divorce. It the WS’s job to stop you since they screwed up it’s up to them to fix it, not you. I made the mistake of thinking if I fixed all my issues then my WW would come back, NOPE. I became the perfect husband (something I did need to do) but the draw of the affair was just too powerful at the time. It took giving up on her and moving towards a divorce before she finally woke up. When the WS has to choose between the AP and the BS, they tend to go for the one they fear they may lose the most. This tend to be the AP (they are still in the honeymoon stage and still a bit insecure) but as a BS you reject them and let them know you will not take them back then that makes them go for you.

Getting the WS back is the easy part, making them stay is hard. I had 2 false R because I was the nice guy and wanted to martyr myself. You don’t get respect that way; you get respect by standing up for yourself and rejecting them for what they did to you. Anger can be your ally and keep you from becoming a doormat. The WS doesn’t want to come back to a sad sap that’s depressed all the time, they want someone that can live without them and isn’t needy.

There’s never a point of no return. Just because you or they say it’s over forever and that there’s no turning back doesn’t actually mean anything. My FWW told me that more than once and she has eaten a lot of crow for that. You are better off telling them you don’t want them back than telling them you want to work on the marriage.


Sorry so long. I screwed up big time back then and today I see the error of my ways and more important WHY they are errors. When I see someone go down the wrong path like I did I feel compelled to stop them even if it falls on deaf ears.
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post #30 of 203 (permalink) Old 11-28-2011, 10:00 AM
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Re: Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this

Well said! This is a must read for all newly betrayed
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